Will FSD use CT front bumper camera?

[Spacenoddle]

Parking assist doesn't seem use the bumper camera and other Tesla vehicles don't have the bumper camera.

What do you guys think?

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[txtravwill]

I don't think so for a while until the other models have it more.

 

[AO-Pete]

Will it? Nope. Should it? Yep. Probably at least a year out, maybe more, if we assume Juniper will get a front camera.

 

[Art138]

Hope it never uses it… I have a push bar that a glimpse shows top edge.

 

[Woodrick]

Parking assist doesn't seem use the bumper camera and other Tesla vehicles don't have the bumper camera.

What do you guys think?

What advantage do you think that it would give?

 

[Spacenoddle]

What advantage do you think that it would give?

No advantage i can tell. I used to use it to park. but now i usually don't even use it anymore.

 

[getsometom]

Highly doubtful Tesla would use the front bumper camera for FSD however I can see autopark could use it to scan for curbs, parking blocks, etc.

 

[Woodrick]

No advantage i can tell. I used to use it to park. but now i usually don't even use it anymore.

You do have to realize that MOST of the other Teslas don't have one. And most of the cars that have been driven in the last 150 years don't have one. So is it needed to drive? No.

 

[firsttruck]

You do have to realize that MOST of the other Teslas don't have one. And most of the cars that have been driven in the last 150 years don't have one. So is it needed to drive? No.

FSD is supposed to get to be 10x better than human driver.

The current front cameras can NOT see children, pets, curbs very close to front of vehicle..

Current cameras (front & side) in many situations can not see cross traffic as well as human driver (see Chuck Cook videos).

 

[Woodrick]

FSD is supposed to get to be 10x better than human driver.

The current front cameras can NOT see children, pets, curbs very close to front of vehicle..

Current cameras (front & side) in many situations can not see cross traffic as well as human driver (see Chuck Cook videos).

And people hit obstacles immediately in front or behind their vehicles all the time.

Where does cross traffic come into play with the front camera? FSD does a pretty good job of understanding where cross-traffic is and can be from and will creep up as needed to make sure that the road is clear.

 

[firsttruck]

And people hit obstacles immediately in front or behind their vehicles all the time.
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EXACTLY. There are a lot of BAD drivers

Good drivers, every time, before getting into vehicle, check or walk in front (or if reversing, behind ) of the vehicle to verify the immediate path is clear.

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Where does cross traffic come into play with the front camera?

FSD does a pretty good job of understanding where cross-traffic is and can be from and will creep up as needed to make sure that the road is clear.

The current FSD "PRETTY GOOD" is still a long long long long way from 2x, 5x or 10x better than average human driver.

One of the front cameras is wide-angled. The peripheral vision of this camera is probably partly used in cross-traffic detection.

FSD B-pillar camera views are in some scenarios too far back compared to what a human driver is capable of seeing. FSD sometimes needs to creep out more than is safe.

The FSD windshield cameras can not see to the sides long distance with enough accuracy for high-speed cross traffic. It is partially working but the error margins might be borderline too large.
When crossing multiple lanes of high-speed traffic just a little error in speed detection could lead to drastic results.

With current camera placement, FSD needs to creep out further than many human drivers do.

Many human drivers can get their direct side views from location parallel to the A-pillar ( depending on driver & vehicle design some time they can even see from ahead of A-pillar).

Chuck Cook and others have explained the deficiency in Tesla setup.

Waymo, Cruise, MobileEye, and others are wasting alot with all the LIDAR/RADAR stuff but they all are correct in having cameras at front & rear edges of the vehicle.

Higher resolution does not solve the problem. The problem is the angles.

I can understand the economic reasons Tesla had to scrimp on cameras in the early days when it was not yet proven that camera only FSD was even possible (yet). Nobody else was putting enough cameras & compute resources on every vehicle shipped.
None of the legacy manufacturers have even put the hardware on 10,000 vehicles.

Nobody HAD every before gotten the software for camera vision only to do the job.

Tesla has now definitively proven it is possible.
By end of 2025, Tesla will have millions of vehicles capable of FSD.

Need a few more cameras in-order to achieve 5x and 10x better than average human.
Now it is worth spending the extra money for more cameras.

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A distortion image correction method based on machine vision (in auto-driving tech)
et al 2020
Guangxing Tan
et al 2020
J. Phys.: Conf. Ser. 1453 012136
https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1742-6596/1453/1/012136/pdf

.....
In the process of acquiring images, the auto-driving technology has a certain angle between the camera
and the road surface due to factors such as the shooting angle, which causes the images to have
different degrees of distortion.

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What is the distortion at the edges of a lens?
Barrel Distortion: In barrel distortion, the straight line appears to curve outward, resembling a barrel. It is normally caused when wide-angle lenses are used, in which the light rays from the edges of the frame are ** refracted more than those from the center **.
Jul 12, 2024
https://www.e-consystems.com › camera › technology

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Wide angle lens: A beginner's Guide - Adobe
https://www.adobe.com/creativecloud/photography/discover/wide-angle-lens.html#

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Distortion is the number one issue to watch out for when you use a wide-angle lens. Barrel distortion, where straight lines appear to bow outward, will often show up in your photos the wider you go. Be especially mindful of this when you photograph people, and watch out for objects at the edges of your frame.

.....
2.2. Distortion type
The distortion can be divided into radial distortion and tangential distortion. As shown in the Figure 2, dr is radial distortion and it is tangential distortion.The radial distortion is caused by the change of radial curvature of the optical lens.
** The farther away from the optical center, the larger the deformation of the image point moving along the radial direction.

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* Example of blind spot near front of vehicle.

Testing Tesla Actually Smart Summon
Dirty Tesla
Sep 20, 2024

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[Gaximus]

Tesla doesn’t want to be that much better at driving than a human. Safer, yes, because of the 100% attention rate. But better,no. If that were true they wouldn’t have taken radar out of the vehicles. Radar can see through fog and much farther at night. It’s way better at determining distance, than stereoscopic vision. I used to have radar on my S, then updated to the better cameras, not knowing it would disable my radar. Ever since then, I can’t choose “1” as a distance when using cruise control. Image my surprise when my new CT could also not choose 1 as a distance, it’s likely a programming choice, if 2 is as close as you can get, then it’s a 1. It’s as if Tesla is admitting it’s not as good and they know it.

 

[kappaknight]

While I think adding front camera and tailgate support would ultimately improve the accuracy, of not hitting curbs or small objects, as a product manager, I can totally see why they wouldn't create a system to rely on it.

Attaching different bumpers or bull bars could block the front cameras and folding the tailgate down would essentially make you lose an eye. If neither were necessary today, losing those two cameras wouldn't negatively affect FSD performance. If they become part of the algorithm and you lose them, you're now creating a bunch of new problems... problems you wouldn't have if you never relied on them from the get go.

 

[firsttruck]

Tesla doesn’t want to be that much better at driving than a human. Safer, yes, because of the 100% attention rate. But better, no
.....

Actual Elon said goal is to soon be much better than a human and eventual 10x - 20x better than human using only Tesla Vision sensors ( cameras only, NO LIDAR or RADAR).

The latest instance of Elon saying this

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2024 Oct 10

video is cued to 1hr5min, where Elon says "much better than human"
A little later in video, Elon says "eventual 10x - 20x better than human"


We, Robot - Tesla Robotaxi Event - 2024 Oct 10

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[Pops]

Actual Elon said goal is to soon be much better than a human and eventual 10x - 20x better than human using only Tesla Vision sensors ( cameras only, NO LIDAR or RADAR).

"Better" isn't specific enough and could cause misunderstandings. The way I see it the categories should be Capable and Safe.

Right now humans are far more capable. There is almost no situation we cannot think ourselves out of on the road.

FSD is over all safer because of its attention to the task. Its hard to know how many faults would result in accidents at the moment, because people intervein, but the net result is fewer accidents.

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