Tesla's First Dud: State of Charge x Kyle Conner (Out of spec) talks Cybertruck vs. Lightning & Rivian R1T

[Gurule92]

Don't knee jerk at the title lol. Watch or read first.

Highlights. Kyle says, out of the three, F150 is the roadtrip cruiser, Rivian is the offroad performance truck

He would choose CT over lightning. and it's too close to call between R1T and CT. {There is a video coming where he says he'd pick R1T but as of 7:55pm on a friday he would take CT over R1T lol}. (His favorite is silverado EV though lol). BUT he picks hummer EV over CT.

Charging: He seems to believe the low SOC will be higher with a higher output charger because of the flatness of the curve at v3 charger. This would mean a likely much faster 0-25% charge and then probably the same curve after that.

What would he change about the CT? More batteries! lol

Objectively, considering how this is the first vehicle that Tesla didn't blow the competition out of the water and didnt deliver on its promises, it's Tesla's first dud. But it's still an insane truck.

Kyle may not buy a CT though because he already has the R1T

Who buys the CT? What's it's category? Kyle said. It's for someone who wants to stand out (for now). The agility is unmatched. It's not a work truck

Sponsored

 

[TheLastStarfighter]

It's not "objectively" anything, certainly not a dud anyway.

 

[PerfectFlaw]

Oh it's the YouTube guy that rambles on forever in his videos and I fall asleep. Sorry, I could never have the patience to watch one of his videos to even hear his opinion because he causes so much drowsiness

 

[YDR37]

Objectively, considering how this is the first vehicle that Tesla didn't blow the competition out of the water and didnt deliver on its promises, it's Tesla's first dud.

Way too early to categorize the Cybertruck as a "dud". But you have to wonder if it will turn out to be the right strategic move.

When Tesla announced that they were developing a pickup, it was widely assumed that this meant something like "a Model Y with a bed", plus maybe some suspension enhancements. It's common knowledge that pickups and SUVs can share the same platform (like the Rivian R1T and R1S), so this seemed like a natural next step. There were hypothetical renders like this one:

And this one:

If Tesla had gone this route, they would be likely competing with the (little) Ford Maverick pickup today, and not the (big) Ford F-150. In fact, a Maverick is almost exactly the same length as a Model X.

The Maverick is generally considered a success. It's inexpensive, fun to drive, and available as a hybrid. It isn't meant for serious hauling or towing, so some would not regard it as a "real" truck, but it seems to be popular nonetheless.

Maybe an electric Maverick alternative would have been a more realistic target than an electric F-150 alternative, given the current state of EV technology. My suspicion is that a "Model Y with a bed" would have reached the market more quickly than the Cybertruck, at a much lower price, with faster charging. And it would have been more appealing to Ford Maverick customers than the Cybertruck is likely to be with Ford F-150 customers.

 

[CyberTW]

Way too early to categorize the Cybertruck as a "dud". But you have to wonder if it will turn out to be the right strategic move.

When Tesla announced that they were developing a pickup, it was widely assumed that this meant something like "a Model Y with a bed", plus maybe some suspension enhancements. It's common knowledge that pickups and SUVs can share the same platform (like the Rivian R1T and R1S), so this seemed like a natural next step. There were hypothetical renders like this one:

And this one:

If Tesla had gone this route, they would be likely competing with the (little) Ford Maverick pickup today, and not the (big) Ford F-150. In fact, a Maverick is almost exactly the same length as a Model X.

The Maverick is generally considered a success. It's inexpensive, fun to drive, and available as a hybrid. It isn't meant for serious hauling or towing, so some would not regard it as a "real" truck, but it seems to be popular nonetheless.

Maybe an electric Maverick alternative would have been a more realistic target than an electric F-150 alternative, given the current state of EV technology. My suspicion is that a "Model Y with a bed" would have been available much sooner than the Cybertruck, would have been priced much lower, would have charged more rapidly, and would have been more attractive to Ford truck customers.

I feel like they are doing the right thing with CT. They just need the price to come down and range/battery ability to get it to 380-400 (w/o the range extender).. if the AWD were $59k, we would think of it differently….
And I have to think they designed it to be able to scale quick once they get process figured out.. the more it can scale, the lower the price.

 

[jerhenderson]

Don't knee jerk at the title lol. Watch or read first.

Highlights. Kyle says, out of the three, F150 is the roadtrip cruiser, Rivian is the offroad performance truck

He would choose CT over lightning. and it's too close to call between R1T and CT. {There is a video coming where he says he'd pick R1T but as of 7:55pm on a friday he would take CT over R1T lol}. (His favorite is silverado EV though lol). BUT he picks hummer EV over CT.

Charging: He seems to believe the low SOC will be higher with a higher output charger because of the flatness of the curve at v3 charger. This would mean a likely much faster 0-25% charge and then probably the same curve after that.

What would he change about the CT? More batteries! lol

Objectively, considering how this is the first vehicle that Tesla didn't blow the competition out of the water and didnt deliver on its promises, it's Tesla's first dud. But it's still an insane truck.

Kyle may not buy a CT though because he already has the R1T

Who buys the CT? What's it's category? Kyle said. It's for someone who wants to stand out (for now). The agility is unmatched. It's not a work truck

Lol.... show me what was promised and where it says that.

 

[Longranger]

Too early to pronounce anything. If the ramp goes smoothly and fast we will see prices come down 20k for the AWD base model within the year. With rebates the price will start in the low 70s. Without any improvements the CT looks very unique and at least competitive except for long range towing or as a pure work truck.

Today is a starting point. The CT will improve. I fully expect the CT a year from now to have answered many of the early critiques. If the batteries improve even 10% range will be acceptable to many more buyers. No way Tesla gives up on the CT now. The hard work is already done.

 

[WinnieNomad]

The red truck looks like something out of the Disneyland Cars ride.

 

[YDR37]

if the AWD were priced at $59k, we are having a different discussiln

Coincidentally, Elon had the following thoughts on Tesla truck pricing back in June 2019:

“We don’t want it to be really expensive. I think it’s got to start at less than $50,000, it’s got to be like $49,000 starting price, maximum, ideally less. … It’s got to be something that’s affordable. There will be versions of the truck that are more expensive, but you’ve got to be able to get a really great truck for $49,000, or less.”

Well, according to the CPI Inflation Calculator, it just so happens that $49k in June 2019 is equivalent to $59k today.

Of course, you can't get a Cybertruck AWD today for $59k. But it certainly seems possible that a "Model Y with a bed" could have met that target.

 

[Woodrick]

Too early to pronounce anything. If the ramp goes smoothly and fast we will see prices come down 20k for the AWD base model within the year. With rebates the price will start in the low 70s. Without any improvements the CT looks very unique and at least competitive except for long range towing or as a pure work truck.

Today is a starting point. The CT will improve. I fully expect the CT a year from now to have answered many of the early critiques. If the batteries improve even 10% range will be acceptable to many more buyers. No way Tesla gives up on the CT now. The hard work is already done.

That's not going to happen. Because Tesla has got to get the ramp up, just to stop losing $20k on each car. Then they have to run for awhile to make some money. And they have to make enough money to subsidize the creation of the low cost Tesla.
That's the way Tesla works, each car subsidizes the next.

 

[FarAway]

Way too early to categorize the Cybertruck as a "dud". But you have to wonder if it will turn out to be the right strategic move.

When Tesla announced that they were developing a pickup, it was widely assumed that this meant something like "a Model Y with a bed", plus maybe some suspension enhancements. It's common knowledge that pickups and SUVs can share the same platform (like the Rivian R1T and R1S), so this seemed like a natural next step. There were hypothetical renders like this one:

And this one:

If Tesla had gone this route, they would be likely competing with the (little) Ford Maverick pickup today, and not the (big) Ford F-150. In fact, a Maverick is almost exactly the same length as a Model X.

The Maverick is generally considered a success. It's inexpensive, fun to drive, and available as a hybrid. It isn't meant for serious hauling or towing, so some would not regard it as a "real" truck, but it seems to be popular nonetheless.

Maybe an electric Maverick alternative would have been a more realistic target than an electric F-150 alternative, given the current state of EV technology. My suspicion is that a "Model Y with a bed" would have reached the market more quickly than the Cybertruck, at a much lower price, with faster charging. And it would have been more appealing to Ford Maverick customers than the Cybertruck is likely to be with Ford F-150 customers.

That's not a pickup, that's a UTE.
So, what's a "yoot", you say??




A ute (/juːt/ YOOT), originally an abbreviation for "utility" or "coupé utility", is a term used in Australia and New Zealand to describe vehicles with a tonneau behind the passenger compartment, that can be driven with a regular driver's licence.

Traditionally, the term referred to vehicles built on passenger car chassis and with the cargo tray integrated with the passenger body (coupé utility vehicles). However, present-day usage of the term "ute" in Australia and New Zealand has expanded to include any vehicle with an open cargo area at the rear,which would be called a pickup truck in other countries.

What say ya, Ozzie's??

 

[Longranger]

That's not going to happen. Because Tesla has got to get the ramp up, just to stop losing $20k on each car. Then they have to run for awhile to make some money. And they have to make enough money to subsidize the creation of the low cost Tesla.
That's the way Tesla works, each car subsidizes the next.

I hope you are wrong about the timeline. At the current prices the pool of buyers will run out fast if the current pricing remains

 

[Woodrick]

I hope you are wrong about the timeline. At the current prices the pool of buyers will run out fast if the current pricing remains

We'll just have to see.

I suspect that there still be a enough buyers to go for a long time. And people tend to forget that existing ICE pick-ups are damn expensive as well.

 

[Jabman]

We'll just have to see.

I suspect that there still be a enough buyers to go for a long time. And people tend to forget that existing ICE pick-ups are damn expensive as well.

Agreed. Try to buy a brand new ICE pickup with even half of the features offered in the cybertruck. You approach 100k quickly. And they don’t have steer by wire, 4 wheel steering, and AP/FSD as options.

 

[Gigahorse]

Ugh, did not make the CT sound very appealing. Not the world expert but someone who has driven a LOT of EVs

Sponsored