S/X refresh is live (and underwhelming)

[HaulingAss]

MS has better seats, more room, 3 screens, better suspension. If you can't afford a MS, THE M3 is fine, but it's a different tier of vehicle. I've owned both and they aren't comparable.

It's really a matter of personal preference. I could afford multiple, multi-million dollar hand-built Italian sports cars, but I've never seriously considered buying even one of them. Because I don't want one. Same with the Model S Plaid, I really don't want one, I like the Model 3 Performance better. It has nothing to do with money, and everything to do with what I value most in a car.

The 2024 refreshed Model 3 is a stunning car without all the bulk of the Model S Plaid. And it comes with adaptive suspension that is great. I love the flickability of the Model 3 Performance, especially since the refresh. I even prefer the lowly 2018 RWD LR Model 3 to the Model S, in general. It just feels so much lighter, less ponderously sized, and more responsive. It's what makes me happy. And I'm a big guy at 6'-04" and 220 lbs. I have a Model 3 RWD LR, a Model 3 Performance and a Cybertruck and my wife has a Model 3 Performance. Yes, that's three Model 3s! LOL! I only really need one car but I love them all for what they are good at.

Maybe it's the street motorcyclist in me, I've never liked cars that were bigger than they needed to be and I've always put more premium on road feel than a soft ride. And that's one reason why the Cybertruck is the best truck I've ever owned or driven, superior road feel. I'm far too secure in myself to give a rats ass what anyone else thinks, I'm not here to impress others.

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[HaulingAss]

The Model S was still the best-selling EV in its class in 2024. But in 1Q 2025, the BMW i5 and the Lucid Air both pulled ahead.

I believe the Model S was the best-selling EV in it's class for 12 years running. That was a fine run. Now, the Model Y is not just the best-selling EV in the world, it's the best selling car or truck of any kind, gas or electric, in the world, for the last two years in a row! Somehow, I don't think Tesla cares about $100K cars anymore, they just keep the Model S around for nostalgias sake. And because they can.

This refresh will not help. If anything, the S/X could sell worse now, because of the increased starting prices.

They will probably sell better now that they have more premium pricing. It's funny how that works, people are drawn to expensive things, the more something costs, the more it is viewed as a status symbol (by many). I say, let them peacock!

 

[HaulingAss]

I love steer by wire but some people prefer a more traditional steering feel also.

Huh? 99.9% of people who think they prefer a traditional steering feel have never driven a vehicle like the Cybertruck with steer-by-wire.

Nobody in their right mind would prefer hand-over-handing it in the parking lot vs. point and go.

 

[HaulingAss]

I see a lot of Model Ys in my area, but most of them are older. It's still unusual to see a Model Y with a front light bar, but whenever I approach one on the road, I can recognize it at a glance and instantly think "ooh, there's one of those new Ys".

I would be willing to bet that most people don't care if you notice their car or not! I know I don't.

 

[hemiarch]

Huh? 99.9% of people who think they prefer a traditional steering feel have never driven a vehicle like the Cybertruck with steer-by-wire.

Nobody in their right mind would prefer hand-over-handing it in the parking lot vs. point and go.

Yep. That may seem completely true to you so I understand the confidence with which you say it, but I personally know at least three people “in their right mind” who have driven both my cars repeatedly and have a clear preference for the standard rack after having gotten used to both. Chock it up to what they are used to liking I guess? Whatever the reason, that’s what they still say they would choose.
I agree, the drive by wire is vastly superior, but that’s an opinion you and I share, not a fact.

 

[HaulingAss]

Yep. That may seem completely true to you so I understand the confidence with which you say it, but I personally know at least three people “in their right mind” who have driven both my cars repeatedly and have a clear preference for the standard rack after having gotten used to both. Chock it up to what they are used to liking I guess? Whatever the reason, that’s what they still say they would choose.
I agree, the drive by wire is vastly superior, but that’s an opinion you and I share, not a fact.

Just because they have tried both doesn't mean they are right. It means they don't understand how their presumed preferences are determined by ingrained habits that will quickly dissolve if they adopt the easier solution.

It's a form of ignorance and not wanting to form new habits (that will happen automatically if they use it). Just as likely, they are reacting to the Cybertruck itself, they don't WANT to like it. LOL!

Personal biases and very interesting to me. And some people are naturally stubborn against their own best interests. Said another way, some people are their own worst enemy. Very few people, basically none, would be willing to go back to the inferior way if all cars had the option of SBW at the same price and people actually used it for a month.

 

[hemiarch]

I agree. Same can be said about many aspects of our amazing cars. No stalks, no shifter, no extraneous buttons and screens, on screen rearview and side-view mirrors etc.
Unfortunately, these biases that people bring take a front seat in buying decisions though.
Tesla doesn’t completely ignore that even though they pretend to.
If they did, they wouldn’t sell as many cars.

 

[YDR37]

The Rivian R1S outsold the Model X for the first time in 2024. The R1S was still ahead in 1Q 2025, and the BMW iX was gaining ground.

Rivian's fate -- life or death -- will be decided next year, when the R2 enters the mid-sized SUV market to compete with the Model Y. If the R2 is not a hit, Rivian is over.

The R2 will have a more traditional SUV design than the Model Y, with higher ground clearance and more interior space. These differences also apply to the R1S vs. the Model X (in the large EV SUV sector). The R1S is clearly competitive with the MX, so Rivian is probably hoping for a similar outcome with the R2 vs. the MY.

Rivian only competes with Tesla in North America (at least for now). Most Model Y sales are in Europe or Asia. So even if the R2 does take a bite out of North American MY sales, the MY should still be a much bigger seller on a global basis.

 

[dalton108]

Rivian's fate -- life or death -- will be decided next year, when the R2 enters the mid-sized SUV market to compete with the Model Y. If the R2 is not a hit, Rivian is over.

The R2 will have a more traditional SUV design than the Model Y, with higher ground clearance and more interior space. These differences also apply to the R1S vs. the Model X (in the large EV SUV sector). The R1S is clearly competitive with the MX, so Rivian is probably hoping for a similar outcome with the R2 vs. the MY.

Rivian only competes with Tesla in North America (at least for now). Most Model Y sales are in Europe or Asia. So even if the R2 does take a bite out of North American MY sales, the MY should still be a much bigger seller on a global basis.

Don’t forget about the R3. I think that that is going to be a killer product for them.

 

[YDR37]

Don’t forget about the R3. I think that that is going to be a killer product for them.

The R3 is supposed to come after the R2, most likely in 2027. If the R2 is a flop, we will probably never see the R3.

But let's assume that the R2 succeeds and that the R3 follows. In that case, yes, I agree that the R3 could be a winner. And there's not likely to be much competition in that sector; Tesla doesn't make anything that small, for example.

 

[YDR37]

I would be willing to bet that most people don't care if you notice their car or not! I know I don't.

I don't either. The point is simply that that a new Model Y looks refreshed, and a new MS/MX doesn't. Looks aren't everything, but I would be willing to bet that a cool new look can help boost the sales of a refreshed model. The refreshed MS/MX won't get that boost.

 

[ABILISK]

I agree. Same can be said about many aspects of our amazing cars. No stalks, no shifter, no extraneous buttons and screens, on screen rearview and side-view mirrors etc.
Unfortunately, these biases that people bring take a front seat in buying decisions though.
Tesla doesn’t completely ignore that even though they pretend to.
If they did, they wouldn’t sell as many cars.

That’s probably why they kept a stalk in the new Y. Couldn’t risk the world’s best seller taking a hit.

 

[Baldyloxx]

There becomes a point to where it is difficult to make a major improvement to an already stellar product.. this is how I see the S and X.. The refresh is an improvement, but not an extreme jump because they are already great..

If you notice, Model3, S and X all have Roadster cues…

maybe this is a signal (finally) to the next big thing…

that being said, I like the refreshes.. they for the Family Alignment well..

 

[jimbobb23]

I just wish they would make an SUV like the Rivian designs not the goofy X design. An actual real SUV. I need FSD. I can't get a Rivian. Maybe have to get a 4Runner again...those are awesome. But I would rather get the Tesla.

 

[Baldyloxx]

If you don’t know why Tesla doesn’t make a conventional looking vehicle, then you just don’t understand Tesla…

I hope Tesla keeps bringing the products that sets Tesla apart from the rest..

but please leave the hype at the door…

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