4680 dry cathode battery for the CyberTruck. When and what range?

[Crissa]

Not around Texas it's not. Further your straw man is noted and failed. You CAN STOP in that 240 mile trip, and get GAS, snacks, meals, whatever, just not juice at a super charger.

Thanks for playing.

Noted you don't understand what the term 'straw man' means.

-Crissa

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[Nice2CTu]

There are approximately 196,000 gas stations in ghe US, and about 50,000 Tesla charging stations.

283 million registered cars, 655,000 Teslas.

ICE cars have 125 year headstart over massively produced EVs.

If one has EV range anxiety that causes loss of sleep, whether justified or not, today there are traditional ICE choices.

My last two ICE cars ( 2016 Toyota Avalon and 2017 Honda CRV) get 25-30 mpg depending on city vs highway driving, but in order to achieve that both manufacturers reduced the gallon capacity of their tanks--12 gal Honda and 15 gal Toyota), which helped EPA gas mileage on the sticker to meet stupid EPA regs, which is helped because hauling gas weight on average with bigger tank hurts MPG. So in Honda, I get a 300 mile range. Toyota a bit more, but neither are materially more or less than my CT.

Which then gets back to density and availability of charging stations.

144 million homes in US, not factoring in aparments, but those are all charging stations, which dwarf 196k count of gas stations, assuming very few homes include buried gasoline tanks and pumps. Americans traditionally love cars and road trips, but am assuming vastmajority of all car miles are commuters, and road trippers over 300 miles a day also a small minority.

Two more assumptions:

1) 50k charging stations in 20 years, along with greenfield ground up creation of Tesla fleet of which the Y model best selling vehicle in the world, is a major accomplishment (understatement worthy of British vernacular).

2) I agree that if I were trying to reach critical mass selling for EV models, I would go after commuter mass market as priority and target remainder market with future projections of more charging stations and projected battery improvements.

 

[CTOWannabe]

Noted you don't understand what the term 'straw man' means.

-Crissa

Dr heal thyself

 

[CTOWannabe]

There are approximately 196,000 gas stations in ghe US, and about 50,000 Tesla charging stations.

283 million registered cars, 655,000 Teslas.

ICE cars have 125 year headstart over massively produced EVs.

If one has EV range anxiety that causes loss of sleep, whether justified or not, today there are traditional ICE choices.

My last two ICE cars ( 2016 Toyota Avalon and 2017 Honda CRV) get 25-30 mpg depending on city vs highway driving, but in order to achieve that both manufacturers reduced the gallon capacity of their tanks--12 gal Honda and 15 gal Toyota), which helped EPA gas mileage on the sticker to meet stupid EPA regs, which is helped because hauling gas weight on average with bigger tank hurts MPG. So in Honda, I get a 300 mile range. Toyota a bit more, but neither are materially more or less than my CT.

Which then gets back to density and availability of charging stations.

144 million homes in US, not factoring in aparments, but those are all charging stations, which dwarf 196k count of gas stations, assuming very few homes include buried gasoline tanks and pumps. Americans traditionally love cars and road trips, but am assuming vastmajority of all car miles are commuters, and road trippers over 300 miles a day also a small minority.

Two more assumptions:

1) 50k charging stations in 20 years, along with greenfield ground up creation of Tesla fleet of which the Y model best selling vehicle in the world, is a major accomplishment (understatement worthy of British vernacular).

2) I agree that if I were trying to reach critical mass selling for EV models, I would go after commuter mass market as priority and target remainder market with future projections of more charging stations and projected battery improvements.

I agree with all of that. This only gets better with time and more charging stations, and thankfully for many, this is already a non-issue. I hope it will be for me soon too. It can, in my use case, be fixed with a little more range or a few new strategically placed superchargers.

That said the apartment issue is huge. Not only do people without home charging, huge numbers in the US, not have the feature of leaving with always full range, they have huge problems not only with lack of chargers in places like NYC, but in the few parking lots in residential buildings, many are banning electric cars because of battery fire fears.

Again, a lot of this gets better and bette with just more super chargers, and your excellent point that gas stations have over a hundred year head start.

 

[REM]

There are approximately 196,000 gas stations in ghe US, and about 50,000 Tesla charging stations.

283 million registered cars, 655,000 Teslas.

ICE cars have 125 year headstart over massively produced EVs.

If one has EV range anxiety that causes loss of sleep, whether justified or not, today there are traditional ICE choices.

My last two ICE cars ( 2016 Toyota Avalon and 2017 Honda CRV) get 25-30 mpg depending on city vs highway driving, but in order to achieve that both manufacturers reduced the gallon capacity of their tanks--12 gal Honda and 15 gal Toyota), which helped EPA gas mileage on the sticker to meet stupid EPA regs, which is helped because hauling gas weight on average with bigger tank hurts MPG. So in Honda, I get a 300 mile range. Toyota a bit more, but neither are materially more or less than my CT.

Which then gets back to density and availability of charging stations.

144 million homes in US, not factoring in aparments, but those are all charging stations, which dwarf 196k count of gas stations, assuming very few homes include buried gasoline tanks and pumps. Americans traditionally love cars and road trips, but am assuming vastmajority of all car miles are commuters, and road trippers over 300 miles a day also a small minority.

Two more assumptions:

1) 50k charging stations in 20 years, along with greenfield ground up creation of Tesla fleet of which the Y model best selling vehicle in the world, is a major accomplishment (understatement worthy of British vernacular).

2) I agree that if I were trying to reach critical mass selling for EV models, I would go after commuter mass market as priority and target remainder market with future projections of more charging stations and projected battery improvements.

One huge consideration is that ICE vehicles cannot fuel up at home.

 

[CTOWannabe]

One huge consideration is that ICE vehicles cannot fuel up at home.

Excellent point. It truly is wonderful to leave the house and always have a “full tank of gas” if you’re fortunate enough to have a home charger.

I feel for those in apartments etc, it makes ownership a trickier proposition because unlike gas, if you have your ev parked outside, everyday you don’t use it, the battery is being depleted some percent (particularly with sentry mode on), so it complicates things a little.

 

[Crissa]

That said the apartment issue is huge. Not only do people without home charging, huge numbers in the US,

Huge, just huge.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/798113/share-of-population-living-apartments-by-state-usa/

Only about a third of Americans live in apartments. And a third of the country live in states where landlords are required to allow EV chargers be installed.

-Crissa

 

[Jager]

The critical difference today between ICE/gasoline infrastructure and EV DC fast charging infrastructure is location.

Nearly all EV DC fast charging locations are on or near an interstate. A high percentage of ICE/gasoline stations are, as well.

But non-interstate locations today are also generally well-served by an adequate number of ICE/gasoline stations. Not so, EV's.

Stay on the interstate and either technology works fine. Get well off the interstate and EV's quickly become challenged. L2 chargers don't usually work on the road, because they take way too long.

Eventually, EV DC fast charging infrastructure will make it to rural/remote areas. But it's certainly a challenge today.

 

[SlegMD]

When CT achieves 420 mile capacity I am in

 

[Woodrick]

The koolaid is high there. They had to turn around. The trucks never did.

210 mils at 85mph does not happen in a cyber truck. And it's 240 to get the the nearest supercharger. Again, little thing called reality keeps getting in the way of your non-arguments.

I'm not talking about this case. I'm talking about others.

And indeed, you may have a route that doesn't work. So don't get an EV and go drink some diesel!

 

[CTOWannabe]

The critical difference today between ICE/gasoline infrastructure and EV DC fast charging infrastructure is location.

Nearly all EV DC fast charging locations are on or near an interstate. A high percentage of ICE/gasoline stations are, as well.

But non-interstate locations today are also generally well-served by an adequate number of ICE/gasoline stations. Not so, EV's.

Stay on the interstate and either technology works fine. Get well off the interstate and EV's quickly become challenged. L2 chargers don't usually work on the road, because they take way too long.

Eventually, EV DC fast charging infrastructure will make it to rural/remote areas. But it's certainly a challenge today.

Totally agree with this. The route I noted (and actually many more around Texas) do not fall in this category, sadly. So the quicker solution for now is just to have enough range for those spots if you happen to need that frequently. Most will not need that frequently, but for those of us that do, it's an issue. I got a feeling in another 5-10 years, that this issue will mostly evaporate.

 

[CTOWannabe]

I'm not talking about this case. I'm talking about others.

And indeed, you may have a route that doesn't work. So don't get an EV and go drink some diesel!

I currently have an ICE solution, but truly love the cybertruck. For my particular use case, I'm reallllllly close to the range I will need. That's why I'm hoping there is some bump in range in the not too distant future. 50-70 more miles of real range get me there and I will be all over it when it happens. Or better yet, if a few of those spots get superchargers, the issue just goes away.

I'm rooting for the tech and it will all be far less of an issue in a few years. But per this thread, I'm hoping I can get something that works sooner rather than later, because I really think it's a super cool truck.

That's why I'm hoping some that know something about the battery tech and/or upcoming revisions might chime in here to give me a little bit of optimism and hope in getting there sooner rather than later.

 

[Woodrick]

I currently have an ICE solution, but truly love the cybertruck. For my particular use case, I'm reallllllly close to the range I will need. That's why I'm hoping there is some bump in range in the not too distant future. 50-70 more miles of real range get me there and I will be all over it when it happens. Or better yet, if a few of those spots get superchargers, the issue just goes away.

I'm rooting for the tech and it will all be far less of an issue in a few years. But per this thread, I'm hoping I can get something that works sooner rather than later, because I really think it's a super cool truck.

That's why I'm hoping some that know something about the battery tech and/or upcoming revisions might chime in here to give me a little bit of optimism and hope in getting there sooner rather than later.

What's the route that you don't think is suitable?

 

[CTOWannabe]

What's the route that you don't think is suitable?

I have several. But one I mentioned here (between Lubbock to Wichita Falls (210 miles) but the nearest charger is in Henrietta, so about 240 miles between chargers):
https://www.cybertruckownersclub.co...ertruck-when-and-what-range.22622/post-392677

 

[Woodrick]

I have several. But one I mentioned here (between Lubbock to Wichita Falls (210 miles) but the nearest charger is in Henrietta, so about 240 miles between chargers):
https://www.cybertruckownersclub.co...ertruck-when-and-what-range.22622/post-392677

210 miles? I'm about to do that this evening and expect to have a decent amount left over. And I'm going over some mountains and will be far from Superchargers, especially on the last half!
Been doing it in each of my Teslas for years.

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