Article: We’re about to enter a world where Tesla is the cheaper electric car

[ajdelange]

Wow. Didn't realize people were so limited in perspective. Clearly any incentive that encourages anybody anywhere to move civilization away from petroleum based transportation benefits eveyone (except the Hunt brothers) everywhere. I very much favor having the incentive in place if it helps Jaguar, Audi, VW etc to get BEVs to market just as I favor the tax credit for PV systems even though most of the components are made by foreign companies. There are going to be Toyotas running around the US for a long time. Wouldn't it be better if they were powered by electricity?

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[Sirfun]

Wow. Didn't realize people were so limited in perspective. Clearly any incentive that encourages anybody anywhere to move civilization away from petroleum based transportation benefits eveyone (except the Hunt brothers) everywhere. I very much favor having the incentive in place if it helps Jaguar, Audi, VW etc to get BEVs to market just as I favor the tax credit for PV systems even though most of the components are made by foreign companies. There are going to be Toyotas running around the US for a long time. Wouldn't it be better if they were powered by electricity?

I see, and agree with your point. However, where I think most people in the U.S. have a problem is in using $7,500 in U.S. tax payers money to effectively give a price advantage over U.S. built vehicles. I want to support U.S. citizens and their jobs. I don't want my money used in a way that could take jobs away from people in my country or state. BTW part of the reason I own Toyota's is because they use U.S. labor. So maybe the incentive can be for U.S. built vehicles only. I would be for that.

 

[ajdelange]

I don't think most people have a problem with the subsidy. Let's note that so far it has gone to two American companies. But we also need to note that the $7500 I didn't pay to our uncle in the last tax year not only benefited Tesla. It also benefited Mercedes Benz (from whom Tesla buys the buttons that control the windows), latin American mining companies that provide the lithium for the batteries, Congolese war lords that use child labor to produce cobalt, Panasonic who makes the batteries and on and on. Some benefit, of course, flows to the Americans who assemble the cars and who sell, transport them etc. Now compare with what happens when someone buys a Mercedes. They still get the benefit of selling the window buttons but the assemblers are now, presumably, German. The war lords, lithium miners still get their chunk while benefit still flows to Americans in sales service and assembly if the car is assembled in the US. IOW the simplistic ignorance of jingoism doesn't give a very realistic picture and makes Americans look like, well, ignorant jingoists. Even the Hunt brothers anti subsidy campaign ("Built by billionaires, sold to millionaires, subsidized by the rest of us.") makes more sense to people which is, of course, why they used it.

These cars are expensive and the people who buy them tend to be relatively rich and thus relatively well educated at least to the point where they understand that Tesla isn't an American company any more than Mercedes Benz is a German one in the modern world. The Hunt brothers slogan isn't aimed at them. They are also smart enough to understand that if Mercedes Benz in encouraged to the point where it produces competing cars that this will force Tesla to produce better cars to better compete and the whole market sector benefits. And, as noted in #16, the planet benefits too.

You have every right to discard every point I've made here but at least you have the bandwidth to see that there is an alternative viewpoint. For what it's worth I'd like to see the credit extended (retroactively) beyond 200,000 units in order to put more BEVs in the hands of American buyers sooner rather than later. And I don't care if those cars are Teslas, Chevvys or VWs. But note what I said in No. 6 above.

 

[Sirfun]

huh, I looked at No. 6 and I'm thoroughly confused now Was that the point? You are a capable debater when you can argue both sides of the argument.

 

[ajdelange]

Trying to say that the tax credit for cars made abroad is fine but that it should not be at the expense of American companies and that therefor it should be extended beyond 200,000 units so that today it should be available to all purchasers i.e. of Jags, Audis, Teslas, VWs and Chevvys.

Guess I could have said it better.

 

[TyPope]

A agree with ajdelange on this one. Here's how I would put it - the incentive should be effective for ALL companies for a set amount of time - meaning that it ends for every company at the same time. I get that the incentive is supposed to help a manufacturer produce a BEV and be able to sell it competitively against ICE vehicles but once it is competing against other BEV manufacturers, it kind of looses it's purpose.

Competition aside, if this is what it takes to get more people onboard the EV train, keep at it. There will come a tipping point where suddenly, it's more beneficial to offer charging stations than gas pumps... How we get there is the real question.

 

[Ehninger1212]

A agree with ajdelange on this one. Here's how I would put it - the incentive should be effective for ALL companies for a set amount of time - meaning that it ends for every company at the same time. I get that the incentive is supposed to help a manufacturer produce a BEV and be able to sell it competitively against ICE vehicles but once it is competing against other BEV manufacturers, it kind of looses it's purpose.

Competition aside, if this is what it takes to get more people onboard the EV train, keep at it. There will come a tipping point where suddenly, it's more beneficial to offer charging stations than gas pumps... How we get there is the real question.

In my business we are already starting to see a curiosity of transitioning to Electrified transport. Questions have started to arise of how the future of convenient stores will change around EV adaption, what that future will look like? The Feasibility of converting existing Gas stations to Electric stations. Also we predominantly work with dealerships, they have embraced EV's heavily. Installing on site chargers because they know its the future. Modifying Service shop layouts due to the change in maintenance style with EV's. A lot of changes coming n the next decade, and Tesla is on the cutting edge.

 

[Blue Steel]

What incentives?

$5000 in Oregon. Model Y is included, so I assume the CT will also have incentives.

And yes, I realize I'm replying to a post from nearly 4 months ago.

 

[TyPope]

$5000 in Oregon. Model Y is included, so I assume the CT will also have incentives.

And yes, I realize I'm replying to a post from nearly 4 months ago.

Long live the zombie post! Kidding. We have incentives in Nebraska but I don't think I'll be able to get my car registered in time to hit the deadline which is the end of this month.

 

[Bigvbear]

Tesla is poised to not only be the cheapest electric car, but be a competitive car company period. I think the biggest drawback to mainstream acceptance of Tesla is the cost. Even the model 3 is a 40k car (unless its very bare bones). If they can get that down to the mid 20s range like many other automakers, they just may run some of them out of business. Especially in the crossover market where the model Y is 2x more than most crossovers. The CT is fairly comparable price wise, but even that is pricey at the top end model. I configured a fully loaded F-150 with all the options and 4 door crew cab and it was still around 50k

 

[Handy Artie]

The big advantage with Tesla’s EV’s aren’t on purchase price. They’re on performance first and cost of maintenance and operation second. As the battery technology improves Tesla’s will also lead in safety and longevity. They’re not something for which you’ll need to purchase or lease more than 6 in your lifetime. Don’t forget what dollar inflation does to purchase price. My Chevrolet 2500 4x4 pick up with cap cost me $18k in 1988.

 

[TyPope]

The big advantage with Tesla’s EV’s aren’t on purchase price. They’re on performance first and cost of maintenance and operation second. As the battery technology improves Tesla’s will also lead in safety and longevity. They’re not something for which you’ll need to purchase or lease more than 6 in your lifetime. Don’t forget what dollar inflation does to purchase price. My Chevrolet 2500 4x4 pick up with cap cost me $18k in 1988.

While it may not be a real advantage, the Tesla Supercharger network is the SOLE reason my wife picked the Model Y over the Mustang Mach E... The SOLE reason.

 

[Bigvbear]

The big advantage with Tesla’s EV’s aren’t on purchase price. They’re on performance first and cost of maintenance and operation second. As the battery technology improves Tesla’s will also lead in safety and longevity. They’re not something for which you’ll need to purchase or lease more than 6 in your lifetime. Don’t forget what dollar inflation does to purchase price. My Chevrolet 2500 4x4 pick up with cap cost me $18k in 1988.

but you do have to admit, the cost is currently a barrier to Tesla busting wide open the market. Not everyone can afford 700+ dollar a month car payments

 

[Handy Artie]

The Tesla supercharger network IS amazing and still growing. It takes you to the south entrance of Baxter State Park with the one in Medway, ME already I’ll try to get one installed in Patten, ME, the north entrance to the park, and Houlton, ME near New Brunswick, CA. It takes you across Canada already. In Mexico there’s one going between Playa del Carmen and Tulum. TYPOPE isn’t exaggerating.

 

[ldjessee]

but you do have to admit, the cost is currently a barrier to Tesla busting wide open the market. Not everyone can afford 700+ dollar a month car payments

Take the cost of monthly gas for the yearly average driving, subtract what it would cost to charge (probably a mix, mostly at home, with some charging station/supercharger amounts). That difference could be applied to the monthly payment and would be no different than what is being paid now.

There is also the increase in safety, but harder to put a number on that.

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