Elon Talks Economy, Possible Discounting, Demand Issues, Stock Sales, and TSLA on on Twitter Spaces

[HaulingAss]

Never, and I specifically used the words "if shit really hits the fan." Meaning a real collapse, anarchy, etc. If there's just a mild recession and more inflation, then debt still wins because you pay it back in cheaper fiat currency. There's no downside to debt in recession, and it's backwards to pay things off before such times. If we turn into Venezuela, then you want to have tangible things that are valuable. Metals, some in the form of guns and ammo, vehicles, other commodities. In any real collapse situation, debt is not relevant; holding tangible things is.

Debt is less bad in a recession, it's actually good if you have long-term debt below the long-term rate of inflation/devaluation of the dollar. But that is not the norm, and the economy only spends a minor fraction of the time in recession compared to economic growth and borrowing rates are normally significantly higher than the rate of inflation/devaluation of the dollar. So, in general, consumer debt should be avoided.

Consumer debt is good for the "haves" and bad for the "have nots". The working people do themselves no favors by using consumer debt to buy more things. Debt should be an instrument of last resort and it pays big dividends to work hard to avoid it. It's better to do without nicities until they can be afforded without taking on new debt. This includes new vehicle purchases. And I will swear that I'm not trying to move up in the Cybertruck reservation line with this recommendation!

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[SwampNut]

So, in general, consumer debt should be avoided.

Only true if the cost of the debt is close to or exceeds the income potential of the assets, and/or the possibility of needing the asset. I'll have pulled around 8-10% from investments this year and am paying 2.3-4% on debt. I'd be an idiot to convert the income to a payoff.

 

[HaulingAss]

Only true if the cost of the debt is close to or exceeds the income potential of the assets, and/or the possibility of needing the asset. I'll have pulled around 8-10% from investments this year and am paying 2.3-4% on debt. I'd be an idiot to convert the income to a payoff.

But that's not what consumer debt is. To refresh:

Consumer debt consists of personal debts that are owed as a result of purchasing goods that are used for individual or household consumption.

 

[Qball]

Tesla is the only car company (EV or not) has the capability to pull the “demand” lever!

Elon said himself the he is seeing cost going down and if he doesn’t reduce price the margin would be absurd 35% and all the lefties will cry evil rich Elon…..,,oh wait, they are already doing that.

 

[SwampNut]

But that's not what consumer debt is. To refresh:

Consumer debt consists of personal debts that are owed as a result of purchasing goods that are used for individual or household consumption.

What are you talking about? Do you believe that car loans and mortgages are not consumer debt? Is there a reason you didn't include the second sentence, which is what I'm talking about?



Credit card debt, student loans, auto loans, mortgages, and payday loans are all examples of consumer debt.

 

[Crissa]

"This experiment with socialism" is what gets you unemployment benefits, clean food and water, social security, and even things like freeways and fire fighting.

It sounds like something super-off-topic around here, and a category violation. Democracy and socialism aren't in conflict. They never were. One is just saying 'we should do this thing together, for the benefit of all' and the other is saying 'we should choose via the will of the people, in the most transparent way'.

-Crissa

 

[JBee]

Freedom is an expression of economics.
You can only do what you can afford to do, and voting has nothing to do with it, because it doesn't give you convertible notes aka money.

The definition is in the word: free- dom-inion vs for example king-dom-inion. It's simply about who owns what, and has authority to act over people and things. Overall though personal ownership is a fallacy, as we are but stewarts, even of our own stardust bodies.

Likewise all economics is from human activity. So controlling economics through fiat, means controlling human activity, and also who has dominion. This however has nothing to do with the natural world, and is all only an illusion of the crazy choices others make on our behalf that we have inherited and except as "fact".

That's also why EM poses the Optimus question of "what is the economy with unlimited labour". I would ask the next question: who owns the world if they own most of the economy, or all of the labour?

 

[Richard V.]

This meme sums up '23 and me:

Elon is saying 2023/24 will not be easy. He even compares it to the 2008/09 timeframe. and recession. Steven is reporting all this here: Elon Musk Explains How To Survive The 2023 Recession - YouTube

Are you ready for it?

Here Randy has some ideas for Tesla: Don't Cut Tesla Auto Prices, Elon Musk! Use These Marketing Levers Instead - Part 1 - YouTube I think that these ideas could work for Tesla as long as all of Tesla production is at max speed during the recession.

 

[Cybertruckee]

"This experiment with socialism" is what gets you unemployment benefits, clean food and water, social security, and even things like freeways and fire fighting.

It sounds like something super-off-topic around here, and a category violation. Democracy and socialism aren't in conflict. They never were. One is just saying 'we should do this thing together, for the benefit of all' and the other is saying 'we should choose via the will of the people, in the most transparent way'.

-Crissa

Very well said @Crissa!

Democracy is a political system, socialism is economics and a way for which the economic benefits are cascaded into the people. But socialism has been demonized for the ignorant and the gullible.

The democratic socialist Norway, Denmark and other Nordic and North European countries have virtually freed their own people from poverty where no one gets bankrupt or homeless with their medical bills with their universal health care, everyone is given opportunity to acquire higher education and marketable skills with free education and training at all levels, seniors don't have to make a choice to eat cat food vs buying their prescription meds because they are provided free medical care and have adequate pensions.

And please, we have vestige of socialism of our own, social security, freeways, government built bridges, parks, fire departments...

 

[Crissa]

Elon is saying 2023/24 will not be easy. He even compares it to the 2008/09 timeframe. and recession. Steven is reporting all this here: Elon Musk Explains How To Survive The 2023 Recession - YouTube

Are you ready for it?

Here Randy has some ideas for Tesla: Don't Cut Tesla Auto Prices, Elon Musk! Use These Marketing Levers Instead - Part 1 - YouTube I think that these ideas could work for Tesla as long as all of Tesla production is at max speed during the recession.

I think these are interesting, but they're just blowhards yapping in front of a camera. Just because someone has a camera doesn't make their arguments better. It makes them worse, usually.

-Crissa

 

[Cybertruckee]

For us still holding Tesla stocks, again dropping 8.8% today, it sure feels like Elon Musk's Great Depression.

 

[JBee]

Elon is saying 2023/24 will not be easy. He even compares it to the 2008/09 timeframe. and recession. Steven is reporting all this here: Elon Musk Explains How To Survive The 2023 Recession - YouTube

Are you ready for it?

Here Randy has some ideas for Tesla: Don't Cut Tesla Auto Prices, Elon Musk! Use These Marketing Levers Instead - Part 1 - YouTube I think that these ideas could work for Tesla as long as all of Tesla production is at max speed during the recession.

The key thing to realise here is that a recession is not something that occurs in the natural world, rather it is a consequence of "misappropriated" resource allocation in the growth period of a fictional economic "cycle". Cradle to grave is not a cycle, it's intentional obsolescence to sustain demand and economic growth. It is a one way path that isn't designed to feed back into itself.

A natural cycle, like the water or carbon cycle, is sustainable simply because it does not know waste, it has none. Every part of the resource chain is reused, and fed back into the cycle, nothing goes to "waste". So it is an actual cycle.

 

[DMC-81]

Elon is saying 2023/24 will not be easy. He even compares it to the 2008/09 timeframe. and recession. Steven is reporting all this here: Elon Musk Explains How To Survive The 2023 Recession - YouTube

Are you ready for it?

Yes, I am. The market crash of 1987 and the 1991 recession that followed was the first one I witnessed. Since then I've watched and learned in the subsequent ones. It made me fairly conservative with finances. Now I am debt free. Feels awesome.

One example: I am still driving my 2006 daily which I bought as a "leftover" in 2007 with 9 miles on the clock (at a discount). This was paid off in 2010. Yes, that was 13 years ago.
It was worth it to rebuild the engine in 2018 and do more engine work this year.
Here's the old girl:

I felt bad that I didn't buy TSLA when I reserved my CT, but I'll watch the company and the macro situation now.

 

[Richard V.]

Yes, I am. The market crash of 1987 and the 1991 recession that followed was the first one I witnessed. Since then I've watched and learned in the subsequent ones. It made me fairly conservative with finances. Now I am debt free. Feels awesome.

One example: I am still driving my 2006 daily which I bought as a "leftover" in 2007 with 9 miles on the clock (at a discount). This was paid off in 2010. Yes, that was 13 years ago.
It was worth it to rebuild the engine in 2018 and do more engine work this year.
Here's the old girl:

I felt bad that I didn't buy TSLA when I reserved my CT, but I'll watch the company and the macro situation now.

Good for you for your own restraints. Yes, it is good to do well with what you own and have now. Even if my CT could be "free" (after my Tesla investments) I will have to make sure I am good with it now that my stocks are all broken. I am retiree (with 40 years I have no need for more Tesla stocks) and I do not need a CT to live. The current situation is making me revised all of it needs and wants about a CT. Such is life..., but Christmas will go on without me... I lost my father I was 19 and learned to do it all alone. I am not very happy with the current Tesla stock situation.

 

[Richard V.]

The key thing to realise here is that a recession is not something that occurs in the natural world, rather it is a consequence of "misappropriated" resource allocation in the growth period of a fictional economic "cycle". Cradle to grave is not a cycle, it's intentional obsolescence to sustain demand and economic growth. It is a one way path that isn't designed to feed back into itself.

A natural cycle, like the water or carbon cycle, is sustainable simply because it does not know waste, it has none. Every part of the resource chain is reused, and fed back into the cycle, nothing goes to "waste". So it is an actual cycle.

I like how you think, however it does not make it better for me at 62 and 40 years of working and all of my pension money paying for all my bills. The cycle for me is another 10 to 30 years at the most and the "cycle" will be over for me with perhaps no CT and more pain. I am still thankful with my old ICE truck... I am not changing any of my Tesla investment positions. Perhaps my children and two grandchild will enjoy most of it.

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