Motors, axles, upgrades

[mcm4ss]

since the AWD has a induction motor on front and a permanent magnet motor in the back, and the beast has a permanent magnet in the front. Would it be possible to swap in a permanent magnet in front for better efficiency, and swap the front drive shafts for increased strength? Seems the efficiency would be worth the 6 hp difference.

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[Edphonse]

Tesla uses the induction motor for the "non-standard" drive motor because, as Elon put it, no part is the best part. An induction motor, while not in use, has next to zero electrical resistance resulting in very low losses coming from the inertial weight of spinning the shaft.

A permanent magnet motor will have significant windage losses due to the fact you are spinning a magnetic field regardless on whether or not you are generating an electrical current with it (historesis losses occur at all times while shifting magnetic fields). This is why Rivian has auto clutches on their "non-standard" drive motors.

The induction motor gives you best efficiency as is for vehicle application since it is only used as a boost motor.

Edit: brain fart resulting in me not typing out about half of a sentence

 

[mcm4ss]

Tesla uses the induction motor for the "non-standard" drive motor because, as Elon put it, no part if the best part. An induction motor while not in uses has next to zero inertial resistance resulting in very low losses. A permanent magnet motor will have significant windage losses due to the fact you are spinning a magnetic field regardless on whether or not you are generating an electrical current with it (historesis losses occur at all times while shifting magnetic fields). This is why Rivian has auto clutches on their "non-standard" drive motors.

The induction motor gives you best efficiency as is for vehicle application since it is only used as a boost motor.

good to know. Maybe swap the other one? My thought after a year is this truck has possibilities through software, or some hardware swaps to go farther than it does. Truck is amazing. Range is a let down.

 

[Edphonse]

Induction motors have significant draw backs with the biggest being they are not as efficient, per kwh, as a permanent magnet motor.

Tesla has done their research and, imo, is using the best main stream tech available because if they could ditch that permanent magnet motor, they would in a heart beat due to the unique metals you need to make permanent magnets.

 

[shopaholic]

Per Grok:

Lucid Motors uses permanent magnet synchronous motors (PMSMs) in their vehicles, specifically designed in-house to optimize efficiency, power density, and range. These motors are a key factor in the Lucid Air achieving superior range compared to Tesla models, with the Lucid Air Grand Touring offering up to 512 miles of EPA-estimated range compared to the Tesla Model S’s maximum of 405 miles. Here’s a breakdown of why Lucid’s motors contribute to better range:


Key Features of Lucid’s Motors:


1. High Efficiency and Power Density:


• Lucid’s motors are designed to be compact and lightweight, with each motor weighing just 11% of the battery pack’s mass, effectively acting as a “zero mass drive unit.” This reduces energy losses and improves efficiency.


• The motors use a continuous copper wave winding technique with microchannels for cooling, which minimizes power losses and enhances thermal management compared to traditional copper-wire windings or hairpins used in many other EVs, including Tesla’s.


• Lucid’s silicon carbide inverter and optimized reduction gearset further reduce energy losses, contributing to a higher efficiency of 5.0 miles per kWh in the Lucid Air Pure, the highest MPGe rating for an EV at 146 MPGe

“”Tesla has done their research and, imo, is using the best main stream tech available because if they could ditch that permanent magnet motor, they would in a heart beat due to the unique metals you need to make permanent magnets”

 

[mcm4ss]

Per Grok:

Lucid Motors uses permanent magnet synchronous motors (PMSMs) in their vehicles, specifically designed in-house to optimize efficiency, power density, and range. These motors are a key factor in the Lucid Air achieving superior range compared to Tesla models, with the Lucid Air Grand Touring offering up to 512 miles of EPA-estimated range compared to the Tesla Model S’s maximum of 405 miles. Here’s a breakdown of why Lucid’s motors contribute to better range:


Key Features of Lucid’s Motors:


1. High Efficiency and Power Density:


• Lucid’s motors are designed to be compact and lightweight, with each motor weighing just 11% of the battery pack’s mass, effectively acting as a “zero mass drive unit.” This reduces energy losses and improves efficiency.


• The motors use a continuous copper wave winding technique with microchannels for cooling, which minimizes power losses and enhances thermal management compared to traditional copper-wire windings or hairpins used in many other EVs, including Tesla’s.


• Lucid’s silicon carbide inverter and optimized reduction gearset further reduce energy losses, contributing to a higher efficiency of 5.0 miles per kWh in the Lucid Air Pure, the highest MPGe rating for an EV at 146 MPGe

I have seen something like this. I was also watching MUNRO live and it was a "cost" mention on why one was an induction motor. Well, F^#% me sideways but 108k I am more interested in improvement. Would love to figure out something. Need to get some enterprising adventurer to install more batteries in the pack. Figure out how to install a couple of Lucid motors. Get this thing at a 375 or 400 range. Would be awesome.

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