Musk claim that model Y outsold every other car in Q1 disputed

[firsttruck]

......

(2) we don’t know how many Corollas were sold globally either, as Toyota never releases these figures, analysts perform back-ins (including the 2022 1.1M figure you site above)

This is in contrast to, eg, truck manufacturers who participate in the “best selling truck in US” wars, and release their category data - those figures are typically US only, and direct info from OEMs.
......

Known Toyota Corolla global sales statistics are not always only just 3rd-party analyst estimates. Toyota itself sometimes releases statistics.

The peak sales for Toyota Corolla were probably in years 2015 & 2016 when Toyota released some stats. Since then I find no evidence Toyota significantly increased Corolla production (new plants or more shifts) but lot of factors indicating declines in volume.

If the 3rd party analyst numbers were way too low I'm pretty sure Toyota would complain. It is more likely 3rd party analyst numbers are now overstating Corolla sales and Toyota not wanting to confirm the decline.

Most all major Japanese based automakers have significant declines because China & Europe have made significant shifts to full BEVs and the major Japanese based automakers have almost zero products in this fast growing category.

China was 2nd largest market for Corolla with Corolla sales previously being much higher in China than in Japan. In China there are many inexpensive small BEVs.

Tesla Model Y sales are now ahead of Corolla even though Model Y is still not yet officially available in many countries or even major parts of the world (South America, Middle East, Africa, lots parts of Asia, only recently became available in Australia, South Korea).

Model Y has not even saturated en U.S. yet. Because of differences in EV charging infrastructure in parts of U.S. and differences in state government incentives, EV adoption has increased fastest in certain east & west coast states. So even in U.S., Model Y still has huge additional growth opportunities.


-----------------------------------------

Corolla by the Numbers | Toyota Motor Corporation Official
30 nov 2016
https://global.toyota/en/corolla50th/history/by_the_numbers/

.....
1.34 million units sold globally in 2015

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[cvalue13]

Known Toyota Corolla global sales statistics are not always only just 3rd-party analyst estimates. Toyota itself sometimes releases statistics.

since we’re talking Musk’s comments last week on an earnings call, the 2015 anniversary data is interesring but not exactly relevant

The peak sales for Toyota Corolla were probably in years 2015 & 2016 when Toyota released some stats.

armchair conjecture

It is more likely 3rd party analyst numbers are now overstating Corolla sales and Toyota not wanting to confirm the decline.

armchair conjecture?

Tesla Model Y sales are now ahead of Corolla even though Model Y is still not yet officially available in many countries or even major parts of the world

asserting as fact without direct support the exact point being questioned

I could draft a parallel set of paragraphs as above, except arguing for the contrasting conclusions, based on equally amounts of supporting information - and your head in particular would blow a fuse and call me a trolling misinformation machine, and you’d kind of be right

I have no doubt Tesla makes more $ from whatever it sells regardless of units, I have no doubt Tesla will continue to capture market, and I’m wouodnt Be surprised to learn the conclusion is categorically true that more a mode Y we’re sold globally in Q1 than any other single model

As I’ve said, I’m just like to understand the data itself, how one obtains it (and it’s reliability), in particular as is relevant to Musk’s comfort with reporting it without qualifications during a public company earning’s call

 

[firsttruck]

Toyota sells in almost every country in world (190 countries. Toyota Corolla sold in 150+ countries).

Tesla has official sales in less than 42 countries.
Tesla still does not have official sales in India (3rd largest vehicle market in world), Japan (4th largest vehicle market in world, start June 2023), South American countries (6th largest vehicle market in world), Central American countries, Caribbean Islands nations (except Puerto Rico), Africa, Middle East (except Israel, Jordan, United Arab Emirates ), Russia, Australia (start June 2023), missing some nations in Eastern Europe, and Teslas not available in many Asian countries.

 

[firsttruck]

since we’re talking Musk’s comments last week on an earnings call, the 2015 anniversary data is interesring but not exactly relevant
......

asserting as fact without direct support the exact point being questioned

I could draft a parallel set of paragraphs as above, except arguing for the contrasting conclusions, based on equally amounts of supporting information - and your head in particular would blow a fuse and call me a trolling misinformation machine, and you’d kind of be right

I have no doubt Tesla makes more $ from whatever it sells regardless of units, I have no doubt Tesla will continue to capture market, and I’m wouodnt Be surprised to learn the conclusion is categorically true that more a mode Y we’re sold globally in Q1 than any other single model

As I’ve said, I’m just like to understand the data itself, how one obtains it (and it’s reliability), in particular as is relevant to Musk’s comfort with reporting it without qualifications during a public company earning’s call

If you have info that Corolla sales have increased past 1.12 million, post it.


--------------------------------------------------

Japanese carmakers’ China sales hit by sluggish EV rollout
Toyota and other Japanese brands struggle in top auto market, falling behind foreign rivals
By Eri Sugiura in London April 17 2023
https://www.ft.com/content/767b5d54-7781-400b-bcf3-16959ee7ec20

.....
Toyota and other Japanese carmakers are suffering the sharpest sales decline in China among foreign brands as analysts warn that their slow rollout of electric vehicles is threatening their future in the world’s largest auto market. Year-on-year sales volume for the country’s brands in China are down 32 per cent in the first three months of this year, according to research company MarkLines. That compares with 9 per cent falls for both German and US groups and a 7 per cent slide for Korean automakers.

.....
“There are clear signals that [Toyota] is at a tipping point,” said Tang Jin, a senior research officer at Mizuho Bank in Tokyo. He estimates Toyota’s market share in China to be 8 per cent, lagging behind VW’s 14 per cent and GM’s 10 per cent.

“Toyota is the best-selling brand among Japanese players, but as overall demand for gasoline-powered vehicles in the market declines, it has not been able to capture business in growing areas.”

.....
In March, Toyota’s year-on-year sales in China dropped 19 per cent. Honda also reported a 19 per cent fall and sales at Nissan were down 25 per cent. The slowdown was accelerated by the removal of Beijing’s generous tax cuts on combustion engine cars in December.

--------------------------------------------------


Japanese Automakers Face Major Sales Crisis In China As Local EVs Dominate Market
Nissan's sales fell by 45.8% in China last quarter while those at Honda and Mazda dropped by 38.2% and 66.5% respectively
by Brad Anderson
May 4, 2023
https://www.carscoops.com/2023/05/j...na-as-local-ev-manufacturers-dominate-market/

Toyota and Lexus posted a sales decline of 14.5%.

--------------------------------------------------

Japan's automakers have a made-in-China sales crisis
By Daniel Leussink
May 2, 2023
https://www.reuters.com/business/au...s-have-made-in-china-sales-crisis-2023-05-02/

.....
Toyota and its luxury brand Lexus posted a 14.5% drop in first-quarter sales, company data showed.

"We need to increase our speed and efforts to firmly meet the customer expectations in the Chinese market," Toyota CEO Koji Sato said in an interview last month.

 

[cvalue13]

If you have info that Corolla sales have increased past 1.12 million, post it.

You’re a strange duck

Person 1: “I wonder why apples are red?”

Person 2: “because they’re not orange”

Person 1: “in a sense, but not the point”

Persin 2: “if you have evidence apples are orange feel free to share”

Person 1: “Nah, I’m good”

 

[firsttruck]

You’re a strange duck

Person 1: “I wonder why apples are red?”

Person 2: “because they’re not orange”

Person 1: “in a sense, but not the point”

Persin 2: “if you have evidence apples are orange feel free to share”

Person 1: “Nah, I’m good”

I am confused. Would the CEO of Toyota, Koji Sato, be the apple or the orange?

Is CEO of Toyota, Koji Sato, warning crisis concern because sales are increasing too fast ?

------------------------------------------

New Toyota CEO, Koji Sato, warned of 'a sense of crisis' in its China business after poor sales by Japanese carmakers there.
Financial Times
2022 May
https://tz.linkedin.com/posts/finan...pply-chains-activity-7056128887314944000-S9Tk

 

[John K]

Data without context can be used to manipulate truth.

For example: Tesla model Y sales exceed Toyota Corolla sales (in my household)

Would you consider Toyota’s self charging ad campaign as honest?

https://electrek.co/2020/01/24/toyota-self-charging-hybrid-ad-banned-norway-lie/

If bad data is presented, double check before believing. If good data is presented, triple check.

 

[firsttruck]

......
Tesla Model Y sales are now ahead of Corolla even though Model Y is still not yet officially available in many countries or even major parts of the world (South America, Middle East, Africa, lots parts of Asia, only recently became available in Australia, South Korea).
....

......
asserting as fact without direct support the exact point being questioned

I could draft a parallel set of paragraphs as above, except arguing for the contrasting conclusions, based on equally amounts of supporting information - and your head in particular would blow a fuse and call me a trolling misinformation machine, and you’d kind of be right

I have no doubt Tesla makes more $ from whatever it sells regardless of units, I have no doubt Tesla will continue to capture market, and I’m wouodnt Be surprised to learn the conclusion is categorically true that more a mode Y we’re sold globally in Q1 than any other single model

As I’ve said, I’m just like to understand the data itself, how one obtains it (and it’s reliability), in particular as is relevant to Musk’s comfort with reporting it without qualifications during a public company earning’s call

At beginning of year (and through June 2023) Tesla's Model Y global production rate was a little ahead of Toyota's Corolla.
Tesla is still ramping up Model Y production at two of it's newest and larger plants (Berlin, Austin).
Unless a major catastrophe happens at a Model Y plant, global Model Y production will be significantly ahead of Toyota Corolla at year's end.

Looks like Toyota kinda had a catastrophe happen.

----------------

Toyota slashes 1,000 jobs at operations in China
Nikkei Asia
July 25, 2023
By YUSUKE HINATA, Nikkei staff writer
https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Automobiles/Toyota-slashes-1-000-jobs-at-operations-in-China

.....
Toyota Motor has cut 1,000 jobs at its business in China. The slowdown in the world's second-biggest economy has resulted in lackluster sales of new cars, creating more headwinds for automakers. GAC Toyota, Toyota's subsidiary in China that is also a joint venture with Chinese auto giant Guangzhou Automobile Group, said it terminated the contracts of about 1,000 employees before their expiration date. Toyota explained that the decision was made in light of the "current production situation."


.....
Toyota announced on July 6 that cumulative sales in China during the January-June period stood at 879,400 units, down 2.8% from the same period last year.

----------------

 

[cvalue13]

At beginning of year (and through June 2023) Tesla's Model Y global production rate was a little ahead of Toyota's Corolla.

maybe that's true?

but neither *you* nor *me* can find any supporting data for that assertion, for either Tesla or Toyota

we can only find *an* analyst who has performed back-in numbers based on partial data, data assumptions, and extrapolations

which is fine, we do more with less, often.

but color me curious for *actual* data to understand

 

[cvalue13]

Looks like Toyota kinda had a catastrophe happen. ... Toyota Motor has cut 1,000 jobs at its business in China.

if you're certain that is a 'catastrophe', then this must have been Armageddon!


Elon Musk clarifies Tesla will lay off 3.5% of total workforce as ex-employees sue company
PUBLISHED TUE, JUN 21 2022 5:18 AM EDTUPDATED TUE, JUN 21 20229:04 PM EDT

 

[firsttruck]

if you're certain that is a 'catastrophe', then this must have been Armageddon!


Elon Musk clarifies Tesla will lay off 3.5% of total workforce as ex-employees sue company
PUBLISHED TUE, JUN 21 2022 5:18 AM EDTUPDATED TUE, JUN 21 20229:04 PM EDT

There is a huge difference between Tesla layoffs and Toyota layoffs.

Tesla increased production and set new production records for the year.

Toyota had slowing sales and Toyota states they will be reducing production.

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