My Model 3 took a 12v smoke break

[HaulingAss]

I think this is maybe the only redeeming quality of the dealership. Dealerships get cars from the manufacturers, I am sure plenty of them come in with minor issues, but the dealership checks them all out and preps them for display on the lot, it makes sure they are look good as no one going to look for a car on the lot wants to see those minor imperfections. They need to sell the car so they need it to be perfect. Tesla's direct sales the service centers are just a means of customer picking up there car its not the same interaction so minor cosmetic things are less likely to be caught. The incentive structure is not the same, the reps are not making commissions on the sale, once a salesman at the dealership loses a sale over a minor thing it won't happen again.

Of course one would have to have to be a real glutton for punishment to think the pain of the dealership experience, the negotiations, and the thousands of additional dollars was worth having someone look over your new car for you. Because you know you are going to do it yourself anyway.

We did it ourself on both our new Tesla's and there was nothing wrong with either of them. If there was, we would have had them fix it. It took less time to look them over than waiting for the stealership salesman to pass your offer by the manager.

The best part of the Tesla purchase experiences we had, beyond how fast and easy they were, was that we didn't have to deal with cheesy dealership people that smelled like cologne and fabric softener. They were normal people that I would trust to dog sit for me. Not that I would ask them to do that but most dealership people I would be afraid to leave my dog with. Complete buffoons. I don't want to look at them, I don't want to smell them and I don't want to sit down and sign papers with them. They have a way of turning a cash purchase for a car on their lot into a major production, full of all kinds of completely unnecessary steps and the need to keep saying no to multiple things. Tesla is not grubbing for extra money so the process is simple and relaxed. It's actually fun and relaxing as buying a new car should be.

I would rather have my wisdom teeth extracted than buy another car from a dealership. They are slitting their own throats.

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[SpaceYooper]

JD powers and Consumer reports are reputable?

Is there a source you recommend?

 

[SpaceYooper]

Customer loyalty is the measure of how likely a brand is to get a repeat sale to the same customer. And, yes, it's always a good thing from a business perspective. I suppose one could argue Tesla has too high of customer loyalty because their wait times have climbed to over 6 months in many cases even though they make a lot more cars each year and don't spend money on advertising.

Yes, but some are blindly loyal. They will make excuses for their chosen brand...same goes for the others; Ford, Chevy, Toyota, etc. It's good for the company, but not necessarily good for the consumer which is the point I was trying to make.

This is how we know Tesla's are some of the least likely cars to leave you stranded. Because people don't like to feel helpless and they will lose that loyalty really fast if they think their car might strand them. Tesla consistently scores at the very top in terms of customer satisfaction. It's not even close.

In the end, that's what matters. Are your customers having such a good experience that they keep coming back? If the answer is "Yes!", you are doing a lot of things right.

Loyalty does not prove that Tesla is the least likely car to leave you stranded. That's the equivalency of saying loyalty to Amazon proves they have to lowest prices or best products, neither of which is true. Amazon offers convenience like no other. Telsa most likely offers the best EVs and best EV bang for the buck, and that's my guess for their loyalty rankings.

 

[HaulingAss]

Yes, but some are blindly loyal. They will make excuses for their chosen brand...same goes for the others; Ford, Chevy, Toyota, etc. It's good for the company, but not necessarily good for the consumer which is the point I was trying to make.

Legacy auto uses expensive advertising to try to increase customer loyalty and that is nothing more than using television, magazines, and auto industry websites to relentlessly brain-wash consumers, repeatedly associating use of their products with toughness, reliability, capability and even sex appeal or being likeable or respected.

The idea that Tesla loyalty is not necessarily good for the customer is an odd thing to say considering their level of loyalty is up to the customer and legacy auto is far more pervasive in their attempts to use advertising to modify the buying decisions of consumers. Tesla is more like "take it or leave it".

Loyalty does not prove that Tesla is the least likely car to leave you stranded. That's the equivalency of saying loyalty to Amazon proves they have to lowest prices or best products, neither of which is true. Amazon offers convenience like no other. Telsa most likely offers the best EVs and best EV bang for the buck, and that's my guess for their loyalty rankings.

Loyalty doesn't prove Tesla's are absolutely the most reliable cars of any brand but the fact that Tesla consistently has the highest costumer satisfaction in the industry is a pretty good indication the cars are not at the bottom of the heap in terms of reliability because reliability is one of the more important metrics to customer satisfaction.

We know that consumer reports low reliability rating is not a reliability rating at all. It's more a measure of how likely a customer is to bring their car back for something, no matter how trivial. I don't know of anyone who thinks a paint defect is a reliability problem (except for Consumer Reports).

 

[rr6013]

Yes, but some are blindly loyal. They will make excuses for their chosen brand...same goes for the others; Ford, Chevy, Toyota, etc. It's good for the company, but not necessarily good for the consumer which is the point I was trying to make.

@SpaceYooper commits the commingling of two concepts; loyalty and cult.

@HaulingAss separates the distinction clearly as to what constitutes loyalty. Blindly loyal, excuses and consumers caught up in the company of those so gaslit are simply members of a cult.

Categorically, Tesla is beyond cult in sheer number of products, satisfied customers and unhappy owners which is the trademark of a healthy marque.

 

[SpaceYooper]

Loyalty doesn't prove Tesla's are absolutely the most reliable cars of any brand but the fact that Tesla consistently has the highest costumer satisfaction in the industry is a pretty good indication the cars are not at the bottom of the heap in terms of reliability because reliability is one of the more important metrics to customer satisfaction.

We know that consumer reports low reliability rating is not a reliability rating at all. It's more a measure of how likely a customer is to bring their car back for something, no matter how trivial. I don't know of anyone who thinks a paint defect is a reliability problem (except for Consumer Reports).

OK, so you support CS data for Tesla loyalty, but you get defensive and call out CS when their data doesn't support Tesla. That's fine. Let's just go with consumer reports sucks. What about JD Power?

I'm still looking for a well-known source of automotive data that says Teslas are reliable. Please post if you have one.

 

[HaulingAss]

OK, so you support CS data for Tesla loyalty, but you get defensive and call out CS when their data doesn't support Tesla. That's fine. Let's just go with consumer reports sucks. What about JD Power?

I'm still looking for a well-known source of automotive data that says Teslas are reliable. Please post if you have one.

Nope. I don't support Consumer Results for anything. Their data cannot be relied upon even if some of it may not be gamed in some way. I am not getting defensive about anything, I'm simply analyzing industry data and sharing what I know about it. And Consumer Reports counts a service visit to repair a paint defect as a measure of reliability. That's just a fact, and an odd one at that!

You may not find any reliable Tesla data from automotive industry sources because they are all supported by legacy manufacturers. All of them. They have a huge conflict of interest in that they have a vested interest in trying to slow Tesla down. They will literally not have any revenue remaining if their revenue sources stop paying them money to advertise, review and test.

I cannot tell you specifically how reliable Tesla's are but I can say after owning two for four years each, they have been perfectly reliable and only two ICE cars we've owned have managed that, an F-150 with about 50K on the odometer and a Mazda CX-5 (sold after 4 years with about 40K on the odometer). The Ford has had a number of service issues but has never failed to get us where we were going. It might have been 105 degrees in the cab but it got us there. The Mazda needed new brake pads and discs after only 32K and had a couple of electronic issues but always got us where were were going too.

We've had a number of modern fuel-injected cars that did strand us multiple times, Volvo's, VW's, Subaru, etc.

From my perspective, the Tesla's are not a liability in terms of being stranded and the lack of regular service visits is a huge bonus. But, no, I cannot tell you with good statistical precision how reliable they are. I just know none of the Tesla owners I know have an issue with getting stranded so it must be pretty low, just like most modern cars. That will not prevent those with a vested interest from trying to create the impression they are unreliable junk.

 

[Crissa]

Their data isn't what's bad - it's how the data is labeled.

Including things that most people don't see as reliability makes the data not about reliability, despite the labelling.

There's no evidence of any bias in their data collection, just their choice of articles to publish.

-Crissa

 

[Challeco]

Is there a source you recommend?

For corporate circle jerks? no. For reliability, check with the old guys at the parts store, and ask a independent mechanic. Look at who is spending the most for advertising and question why, and pay attention to what the ads are selling. Are they selling sexual attraction or are they selling the attributes of the vehicle? There is so much information free to understand beyond what the corporations are offering in their sales techniques. I just look at these awards as goofy alternative marketing. Research is free and if you know what your personal needs and wants are, tune out the noise telling you a car can get you laid, and get the vehicle that fits your needs, wants, and fits your butt. Seriously, nothing on a car is more important than the driver's seat.

 

[SpaceYooper]

For reliability, check with the old guys at the parts store, and ask a independent mechanic.

How about opinionated tow truck drivers?

 

[Challeco]

How about opinionated tow truck drivers?

If the advice is unsolicited? Nah. There are plenty of opinions that aren't worth the air it takes to burp them. If they're trying to help? Absolutely. I've been told too many times that my F250 is a P.O.S. just because of the badge. But it has only left me walking when I neglected to give it fuel. Speaking of, I want my Cybertruck!!!

 

[rr6013]

I actually like the Tesla style, no-nonsense, no handholding experience. It always creeps me out in a very bad way when an ICE dealership starts acting like they are my best friend and want to kiss my ass. Because it's rarely ever sincere. I just want my car fixed in a no-nonsense manner without a lot of BS.

It can’t come soon enough… was lazy forecasting Tesla 4 Giga factories running 100% 3 shift schedules in the near future.

Bob and Alice Q. Public are in-line to drive their Tesla, not early adopter high technologists. That era has passed. Tesla production brings a new type customer the likes of GM, FORD and Toyota have trained to run to their Dealer if even a warning light is lit.

Ted and Carole are right behind Bob and Alice so there’s a string of narratives locked and loaded to shoot video of Tesla in the throes of success of its own making.

The “all input is error” dismissal, autonomousAI bots handling customer service will be fodder. We offroader’s wrenching, soldering and diagnostic console terminal dump is not going to save our asses if Tesla are too busy holding hands to send us a capacitor to replace a leaky one.

My Cybertruck will be in a long line behind yours. Both of us will be fucked if the newbies ahead of us are mucking-up Tesla ability to respond demanding what amounts to olde fashioned hand holding.

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