Tesla Black Box?

android04

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Perhaps the data you think is the most important was delivered to Tesla. But all the questions about a driver could have been answered with the internal video of the driver. In this exact case that data would be critical. And the SD card needing to get sent to specialists to get data off of it indicates that not all the data considered important in this case was immediately available. And if that data cannot be retrieved then it will apparently never be available.

While it is important I’m sure from Tesla’s point of view to know that Autopilot was not engaged at the time, that does not provide a clear understanding of what DID occur. Clearly there is room for improvement in this area.

There is a robust model in airlines that could be implemented by Tesla that would set the standard for all other automakers. Being the first to implement would allow Tesla to define the specifications.
The Tesla Model S involved in this crash did not have a cabin camera above the rearview mirror. Only the latest refresh that is not yet available will have it. Right now only all Model 3 and Y have them.





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HaulingAss

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Did the official report say there was no driver at the time of the crash? Or did they simply say there was no body found in the drivers seat and others had twisted that to say no one was driving.
There hasn't been an "official report" yet.

There is a crash investigation and it takes time for them to compile everything and publish the results.
 

HaulingAss

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Perhaps the data you think is the most important was delivered to Tesla. But all the questions about a driver could have been answered with the internal video of the driver. In this exact case that data would be critical. And the SD card needing to get sent to specialists to get data off of it indicates that not all the data considered important in this case was immediately available. And if that data cannot be retrieved then it will apparently never be available.
I didn't say all the data that was important had been delivered - I said the most important data had been delivered. And from this we know Autopilot was not engaged as was originally claimed.

I also didn't say we know exactly what did happen. But I offered a plausible explanation based on the publicly available information. Certainly, there are other possibilities.

There is a robust model in airlines that could be implemented by Tesla that would set the standard for all other automakers. Being the first to implement would allow Tesla to define the specifications.
Just like Tesla was able to define the standard for truly high-speed DC ports charging since they were first with 150kW charging? :ROFLMAO:

I would also like to point out that we still don't know if the data in the car is retrievable. The last thing we heard (directly from Tesla management) is that authorities were trying to do exactly that. We still don't know if they were (or will be) successful.
 

HaulingAss

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There is evidence to suggest someone was in the drivers seat but we don't know anything for certain. For example an unlikely but plausible explanation would be the front passenger pushed on the accelerator pedal with a stick.

Did the official report say there was no driver at the time of the crash? Or did they simply say there was no body found in the drivers seat and others had twisted that to say no one was driving.
Because 60 year old doctors want to sit in the passenger's seat and accelerate a car to high speed with a stick on the accelerator pedal? OK. :rolleyes:

I guess your theory is that this is a suicide and a murder case. Or a double suicide. And the person doing the suicide didn't want to be in the drivers seat because they wanted people to think they were killed accidently when they were doing an innocent test of Autopilot on a road with no lane markings. :unsure:

Yeah, I guess it's possible.

:ROFLMAO:

Alternatively, we could believe that the elected official, the one who claimed before the investigation had barely started that they already knew with 100% certainty what happened, was a complete idiot and didn't know what he was talking about.
 
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Crissa

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How is car going to send all this info if the crash breaks the transmitter?
It can't send everything, and doesn't try to.

But breaking a transmitter is like trying to break a cell phone that doesn't have a screen. It's just a solid puck.

A 60-year-old doctor did commit suicide, basically, by playing with his fancy car. Why, how, we don't yet know, and may never know. What we do know is that the car wasn't being operated as designed.

-Crissa
 

firsttruck

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But breaking a transmitter is like trying to break a cell phone that doesn't have a screen. It's just a solid puck.

It is not a solid puck. It is a electronics board that is easily broken when metal parts of the car are smashed into the transmitter.

Also with severe high speed crash there is a high possibility that electrical power for transmitter was lost or that the antenna was smashed or ripped off.
 

Bill906

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I guess your theory is that this is a suicide and a murder case.
Nope. Just giving an example of one unlikely but plausible explanation. People do stupid things. Maybe he said, "Lets make it look like the car is driving itself to impress the wives..."


Because the driver's seatbelt was unbuckled, we know there was a person in the driver's seat.
When you say "... we know there was a person in the driver's seat." It sounds like you're saying that with 100% certainty. Yet...

Alternatively, we could believe that the elected official, the one who claimed before the investigation had barely started that they already knew with 100% certainty what happened, was a complete idiot and didn't know what he was talking about.
When the elected official spoke with 100% certainty, you call him a complete idiot.

For the record, I am not calling you an idiot, directly or implied. Just pointing out that it seems you're calling yourself an idiot.
 

Crissa

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It is not a solid puck. It is a electronics board that is easily broken when metal parts of the car are smashed into the transmitter.
Easily? At that point, the metal parts would have had to cut through the skin, the body, the firewall, the case of the transmitter unit...

That's not so 'easily'.

-Crissa
 

HaulingAss

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Nope. Just giving an example of one unlikely but plausible explanation. People do stupid things. Maybe he said, "Lets make it look like the car is driving itself to impress the wives..."




When you say "... we know there was a person in the driver's seat." It sounds like you're saying that with 100% certainty. Yet...



When the elected official spoke with 100% certainty, you call him a complete idiot.

For the record, I am not calling you an idiot, directly or implied. Just pointing out that it seems you're calling yourself an idiot.
There are two key differences:

1) The elected official didn't yet have access to key data - the data that every Tesla transmits as soon as it detects an impact. That data showed Autopilot wasn't engaged which aligns with all the other data we have (there were no lane markings on the road with which to engage AP, AP cannot drive at high speed in a residential area, the steering wheel was deformed, the seatbelt was not buckled).

2) I'm not a public official overseeing the tragic deaths. I called him an idiot because he spoke without authorization from those tasked with investigating the case. It was pure stupidity to claim they were 100% certain there was no one in the driver's seat at the time of the accident. He had no business doing that as it compromises the real investigation and biases the public.

Now do you see where you went wrong by likening me to the elected official? ;)
 
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HaulingAss

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It is not a solid puck. It is a electronics board that is easily broken when metal parts of the car are smashed into the transmitter.

Also with severe high speed crash there is a high possibility that electrical power for transmitter was lost or that the antenna was smashed or ripped off.
The transmitter and it's required sub-systems are designed to survive impacts. It has proven to be reliable in a large variety of impacts including ones much more energetic and violent than the present one.

We know it provided Tesla with at least enough data for them to conclude AP was not active. LTE can transmit a tremendous amount of data, even in a fraction of a second. The critical data is encoded to be as compact as possible.

I can't believe some people are still holding out hope the doctor and his companion had somehow managed to activate AP on a road with no lane markings and with no one in the driver's seat and with the seatbelt unbuckled and it somehow activated and accelerated to high speed in a residential area. It shows that people clinging to this impossible scenario have no first hand experience with how Autopilot actually works and the safety lockouts involved.

These older gentlemen were socializing on a Saturday night and went for a drive to demonstrate Autopilot. But what do you do before you get to a road with lane markings? Well, you demonstrate the ludicrous acceleration. I can't explain exactly what happened but there are a hundred reasonable explainations how something like this could happen. And none of them involve no driver in the driver's seat.

When you have a car that accelerates this fast things can happen when you step on the accelerator. Things go flying, maybe he reached down to grab a spilled drink, had trouble grabbing it right away and veered off the road. Who knows. I'll wait for the official investigation results but we know the driver's seat was occupied and they guy who said it wasn't was being an irresponsible idiot.
 

Crissa

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Even if they were able to circumvent the safety checks (and I know I could), how would that impact Tesla in any way?

-Crissa
 

HaulingAss

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Even if they were able to circumvent the safety checks (and I know I could), how would that impact Tesla in any way?

-Crissa
I don't really think it would but, for me, this is more about being rational than giving in to the ignorant statement of some elected Sheriff that obviously has no experience with Autopilot other than he has heard "it can drive itself".

BTW, how would you get AP to enable without buckling the driver's seat seatbelt?
 

CompMaster

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One more likely version is that driver was buckled, then crashed, tried to open door but was stuck so unbuckled and tried the back door. But didn't back it out... (got this from someone else just don't remember where)

Either way, good test is to see if the CT would just go through the tree and it would slow it down. Of course I am joking, but I am curious on how tough it will be...
 

JJ_Tex

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One more likely version is that driver was buckled, then crashed, tried to open door but was stuck so unbuckled and tried the back door. But didn't back it out... (got this from someone else just don't remember where)
This was my initial thought as well. Have they released the cause of death and if they died immediately upon impact? If not it is very plausible that they lost control, crashed, caught fire, and instinctively tied to get away from the fire and left their original seats after the crash.
 

CompMaster

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I also hear the week before, in that same city. There was a Ford truck that hit a tree, caught fire, no survivors. Buy didn't make the news, why? Because it happens all the time.... lol
Sad but true...

Even me, too many times I had to slap myself to wakeup and eat my pride. And just let others do what they got to do and not create more road rage..

I know this issue was not from road rage, but both I see as trying to prove something to someone that you may never see again.
 

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