Tesla plans to buy Mercedes Benz

[charliemagpie]

An old, wise business person once told me :" Nobody sets out to make you rich"

Tesla looked at Toyota and Apple… That statement above rings true here.

Merc bring nothing Tesla needs.

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[go99s]

What would Tesla get out of the deal?

Their factories can't make Teslas.
Tesla already is maxed out in battery and drive-train production, so they can't add value to a subsidiary.
And Mecedes-Benz should be very profitable on their own right now, buying them would require paying for that profit ahead of time.

On all measures, it's a net loss for Tesla today.

-Crissa

I think that your last word was the most significant... Mercedes is too expensive 'Today', but, when it is dying like all of the other ICE manufacturers, it might be worth acquiring.
As a Brit, the other two 'brands' that would be worth acquiring for their luxury status would be RR and/or Bentley! (Maybe even Aston Martin?)
When BMW and/or VW are desperate for some cash, these might be available? I see a lot of synergy for a Luxury vehicle with a Tesla drive-train and Software underpinning a hand-built vehicle. Who would not want a Luxury marque with Tesla chops!?? (Maybach never really impressed...)

 

[DMC-81]

I seriously considered a Mercedes Benz and or a BMW as I'm in the luxury sedan stage in my life. I test drove a few and did a lot of research, including talking to current owners. Here's the problem with both brands as I see it. They are really nice cars, but the total cost of ownership is downright depressing. The resale value plummets after the sale, and the dealership service is very expensive.

If I wasn't so analytical, I would be driving one of those cars. Instead, I'm maintaining my old vehicle and my new vehicle will be an EV. Why waste the money on an ICE premium vehicle that is in its sunset phase.

I agree, Tesla doesn't have much or any upside in acquiring M-B. I anticipate that as the shift to EVs continues to unfold, mass consolidation of the auto manufacturers will happen again (that's how GM got started in the last century), and many EV startups will fail, but I really can't see a successful EV company buying an ICE company unless said company has strong brand loyalty and a clear and viable roadmap of transitioning from ICE to EV.

 

[JBee]

Mercedes Benz made 2 million cars last year which is twice that of Tesla. 100k Bev's and 130k hybrids. Although batteries make up a significant cost of a EV, electric motors and drivetrains don't and are known quantity, and there is a large part of car design and manufacturing that is propulsion agnostic between ICE and EV regardless of the "fanatism" here in a Tesla forum.

Someone from Cali calling Germans "weird" is ripe though, especially concerning car technology which was invented by Daimler and Benz. Maybe a horse drawn wagon on the prairie is more their speed? I mean both the Otto and Diesel cycles where German too, and while the Germans were driving tanks in their "Blitzkreig" the French couldn't get their horses to retreat fast enough. Let alone the million wood gas vehicles driving around at the time, of which my grandad had a truck fleet.

And btw both the Otto and Diesel cycle were completely renewable at the time of their inception, in that Otto ran on ethanol and Diesel on vegetable oil. It was only because a nutter bent on world domination had to look for an alternative fuel to those that can be grown on a feild in the summer, and went to Africa for it, that fossils even became a thing. The fuel type was named after the engine, not the other way around.

Anyway, the point is the manufacturing and engineering skills available in Germany are the dominant reasons EM gave for choosing Giga Berlin at all. So adding Mercedes would give them further capacity off the bat from now on, with approvals, with all their energies already heading for EV dominance over ICE, with Germany having heavy EV subsidies for a while now. They are also leaders in renewables (produce more RE than fossil) and automated manufacturing so where else would one go?

But maybe its to rush semi. Daimler owns Freightliner that does 100k trucks and has 40% market share in the US alone. Mercedes commercial is the biggest in the world, don't forget Sprinter vans and Co too. Has anyone seen a semi plant at scale going up?

I'm not saying a merger would happen as such, but can anyone tell me of a better fit? Volkswagen has too much baggage and BMW is to small. Or should they look to Ford or GM? Or Toyota.... Lol.

 

[Sirfun]

Mercedes Benz made 2 million cars last year which is twice that of Tesla. 100k Bev's and 130k hybrids. Although batteries make up a significant cost of a EV, electric motors and drivetrains don't and are known quantity, and there is a large part of car design and manufacturing that is propulsion agnostic between ICE and EV regardless of the "fanatism" here in a Tesla forum.

Someone from Cali calling Germans "weird" is ripe though, especially concerning car technology which was invented by Daimler and Benz. Maybe a horse drawn wagon on the prairie is more their speed? I mean both the Otto and Diesel cycles where German too, and while the Germans were driving tanks in their "Blitzkreig" the French couldn't get their horses to retreat fast enough. Let alone the million wood gas vehicles driving around at the time, of which my grandad had a truck fleet.

And btw both the Otto and Diesel cycle were completely renewable at the time of their inception, in that Otto ran on ethanol and Diesel on vegetable oil. It was only because a nutter bent on world domination had to look for an alternative fuel to those that can be grown on a feild in the summer, and went to Africa for it, that fossils even became a thing. The fuel type was named after the engine, not the other way around.

Anyway, the point is the manufacturing and engineering skills available in Germany are the dominant reasons EM gave for choosing Giga Berlin at all. So adding Mercedes would give them further capacity off the bat from now on, with approvals, with all their energies already heading for EV dominance over ICE, with Germany having heavy EV subsidies for a while now. They are also leaders in renewables (produce more RE than fossil) and automated manufacturing so where else would one go?

But maybe its to rush semi. Daimler owns Freightliner that does 100k trucks and has 40% market share in the US alone. Mercedes commercial is the biggest in the world, don't forget Sprinter vans and Co too. Has anyone seen a semi plant at scale going up?

I'm not saying a merger would happen as such, but can anyone tell me of a better fit? Volkswagen has too much baggage and BMW is to small. Or should they look to Ford or GM? Or Toyota.... Lol.

Well-thought-out and written observations. The semi observation is huge. It's interesting how we keyboard warriors come up with all this stuff. Brain exercise, I guess.

 

[Crissa]

At some point in the future, if these companies adapt, but become saddled with debt, buying them out could give Tesla the sites and brand loyalty to expand the number of EVs built. There could be a business model of going through and taking these build processes and making them clean and efficient.

But today, that is just not true. Tesla doesn't have the batteries to spare. 100k battery electric is less than one Tesla factory. It's a tenth the BEVs that Tesla put out. The other 1.75 million cars wouldn't count, Tesla wouldn't ship them.

-Crissa

 

[JBee]

At some point in the future, if these companies adapt, but become saddled with debt, buying them out could give Tesla the sites and brand loyalty to expand the number of EVs built. There could be a business model of going through and taking these build processes and making them clean and efficient.

But today, that is just not true. Tesla doesn't have the batteries to spare. 100k battery electric is less than one Tesla factory. It's a tenth the BEVs that Tesla put out. The other 1.75 million cars wouldn't count, Tesla wouldn't ship them.

-Crissa

I'm not sure you read or understand the implications of my post. They buy MB, start and ramp up with semi, which even at 100k a year is significantly less than batteries in 1m EV's, using Mercedes commercial, then they go to Tesla van and replace the eSprinter/Cybervan, all whilst Panasonic/LG etc ramp up 4680 production for cars, they create and convert to EV only lines, and they fade out ICE propulsion, which by the way has to be gone by 2030 in Germany. Thats not far away. Remember lots of Tesla parts still come from outside suppliers, so having access to those helps too.

To me it seems logical to convert ICE manufacturing and companies rather than this ridiculous "EV Hulk destroy ICE" madness.

There's so much more to manufacturing than the collection of nuts and bolts you have standing at your front door. It's not like Tesla invented the car, or a car so radically different, that it was worth destroying the car industry over, just so you can propel them with electric propulsion. Let alone destroy the skills and engineering required.

As Elon says: Some people think manufacturing is like a paper printer, you design something and then just make copies. Nothing is further from the truth.

Likewise, there is no factory for making engineers. These things are finite.

Regardless, even with a little common sense anyone can see that the fastest way to transition to sustainability is that every manufacturer goes EV sooner rather than later. If that is induced by financial motivation by Tesla buying controlling shares, then why on earth not?

And on that note, if you do, why not buy a brand that is heading there already and is low hanging fruit?

(BTW MB had a 5% Tesla slice a while back so interest is there)

 

[firsttruck]

....
To me it seems logical to convert ICE manufacturing and companies rather than this ridiculous "EV Hulk destroy ICE" madness.

Elon and Tesla already converted an ICE factory to EV production. The Fremont, CA. Tesla was ICE factory from GM & Toyota.

Elon and Tesla built new factory in Shanghai, China.

Elon and Tesla has experience in doing it both ways. Even GM & Ford are building new factories even though both have plenty of old factories they could convert.

Elon and Tesla are going to do "EV Hulk destroy ICE" transportation system in most logical way possible and it just so happens that new factories are most efficient way to make modern EV with front/rear castings, structural battery, and more.
Nothing personal just business.

 

[JBee]

Elon and Tesla already converted an ICE factory to EV production. The Fremont, CA. Tesla was ICE factory from GM & Toyota.

Elon and Tesla built new factory in Shanghai, China.

Elon and Tesla has experience in doing it both ways. Even GM & Ford are building new factories even though both have plenty of old factories they could convert.

Elon and Tesla are going to do "EV Hulk destroy ICE" transportation system in most logical way possible and it just so happens that new factories are most efficient way to make modern EV with front/rear castings, structural battery, and more.
Nothing personal just business.

Exactly, its just that buying shares into a existing company gives you the skills and suppliers too that are harder to come by otherwise. You need both, and my argument is simply which one would be the mostly likely and easiest manufacturer to adopt. You only have to buy half.

New factories, especially overseas are not that easy, by far and casting machines and structual packs are easy add ons if your resdesigning the assembly line anyway for EV. But panels, paintshop, framing, glass, drivetrain etc are all much of a muchness if you slideone or the other in, if anything going EV is easier than going from EV to ICE.

 

[DMC-81]

Mercedes Benz made 2 million cars last year which is twice that of Tesla.

Wow, this fact shows how significant Tesla has become since its founding 19 years ago and the trajectory of the EV market. They have achieved an annual production of half of the number of cars as the well established company that invented the car 136 years ago. Even more impressive is that Tesla increased production by 80% last year.

Still, I don't think that Tesla needs the heavy corporate distraction of a M&A project. Cybertruck already has to deal with the corporate resource competition that the Tesla bot will no doubt create.

Also, I remember the drama over the Mercedes-Benz Chrysler merger in 1995. There were some M-B stakeholders that disagreed with the merger that probably led to the lack of cooperation and numerous other factors that ultimately led to an expensive corporate divorce.

https://mwmblog.com/2019/12/01/the-failed-merger-of-mercedes-chrysler/

I have a feeling that some of these factors would happen again in this imaginary case (exhibit a: the delays opening Giga Berlin).

 

[Crissa]

No, it's been pointed out several times before that no, there is no value in wasting Tesla batteries and drive trains on cars that already cost more to produce.

No, there aren't any Sprinter vans ready to take a Tesla battery pack. That's the way the Roadster was built and it was inefficient. It would waste battery packs making cars that go significantly shorter ranges on the samebattery pack.

No. If Tesla has surplus packs - which they do not - and insufficient ability to convert the. Into car? Sure, then the inefficiency of the old crap Sprinters wouldn't matter.

But that is not now. Nor any time soon. Tesla's ability to make vehicles is growing faster than their ability to make battery packs. And yet their ability to build battery packs is growing faster than anyone else's.

-Crissa

 

[anionic1]

Why would you buy your competition if they're lame and overpriced?

Tesla needs to buy Alpha Motors and open themselves to a new style. All their cars look the same and they are good looking cars, but not game changer aesthetically. An Alpha Tesla would be incredible and this world really needs Alpha Motors to succeed.

I think a lot of people buy Teslas because the status, brand and tech not because they actually like the look. I placed a CT order early on because I want an EV and a stainless truck would be amazing and proportionally Tesla made it work so I was ok with the looks and then they grew on me.

 

[charliemagpie]

It's like saying, I’m buying an old house, so I can renovate it to look like a new house.

 

[Dids]

Tesla needs to buy Alpha Motors and open themselves to a new style. All their cars look the same and they are good looking cars, but not game changer aesthetically. An Alpha Tesla would be incredible and this world really needs Alpha Motors to succeed.

I think a lot of people buy Teslas because the status, brand and tech not because they actually like the look. I placed a CT order early on because I want an EV and a stainless truck would be amazing and proportionally Tesla made it work so I was ok with the looks and then they grew on me.

 

[Crissa]

All their cars look the same and they are good looking cars, but not game changer aesthetically.

They're not supposed to look vastly different. They're supposed to be ultra-competent. Which Alpha vehicle is competent in range, weight, and price? Well, none. They're not aerodynamic. They haven't any working prototypes. They haven't sold any.

People buy Tesla because it does the things. It's fast, efficient, advanced, upgrades itself.

-Crissa

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