This is an outrage! Tesla vandal causes $20,000 in damages, receives no charges.

[CyberGus]

Many an atheist has pointed out the fact that often it seems to be harder to find grace and Christ-like behavior within that population (at least among the most sanctimonious) than without.

Amen, brother

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[Facedown]

I’m not sure how any of you other Cybertruck owners feel, but I do feel terrorized. I’ve had people come up to me and start yelling at me in parking lots because of what I drive. Obviously, there are the middle fingers, exaggerated rolling of the eyes, and about anything else you can imagine to try to make some emotional political point. It is intentional, premeditated, and dangerous.

ThIs guy’s intention was to terrorize you. Intimidate you. It wasn’t your truck this time. But he wants you to know the threat is out there. Grace…no. It wasn’t some “I was being stupid” mistake. It was an “I am stupid and dangerous” action. This guy should be in jail.

Thankfully, these folks are easily moved on to the next panic. It will be tariffs, El Salvador, another pandemic, whatever. Give it another couple weeks and the spotlight won’t be on us anymore. I can already sense it lessening. Too bad these nutbags don’t get all crazy about litter or bad haircuts and start doing something about that.

 

[WHIZZARD OF OZ]

Actual retribution... We want his head.

Stone Him...... [ Who Said That ]

 

[dalton108]

ThIs guy’s intention was to terrorize you. Intimidate you. It wasn’t your truck this time. But he wants you to know the threat is out there. Grace…no. It wasn’t some “I was being stupid” mistake. It was an “I am stupid and dangerous” action. This guy should be in jail.

I’m made of tougher stuff than that. Because somebody wants to intimidate me doesn’t mean that they can.

I find all of this “terrorism” stuff to be political posturing. Nobody nowhere is advocating that it’s OK for people to damage other people’s property and certainly not to threaten someone with physical harm.

I cannot presume to know what happened in this case other than expect that the police and prosecutor conducted a thorough investigation of the facts, decided what laws had been broken and with the supervision of a competent judge meted out just punishment. What more is to be expected?

I will never stop being amazed at how this nation stopped being the “home of the brave” and became a bunch of whiny fraidy-cats who are literally (or at least want me and others to believe for political purposes) are afraid of everything from coffee shops, to cities, to ppl picking lettuce, to children with water pistols while simultaneously being armed to the teeth with the most capable small arms ever invented. My Kriss Vector ALONE is ridiculous!

MAKE IT MAKE SENSE!

 

[PungoteagueDave]

He keyed six cars. He did not blow them up. Total damage is $21k. He IS paying it back plus the cost of investigation. He is NOT being let off. I am a law-and-order throw-the-book-at them type, but this is a stupid mistake and the victims AND SOCIETY are better off with this result than jailing him. To those who say we need examples and this is a good case to use for an example - I agree - except that the message from this case is already clear to every possible perp - you will be caught and there will be consequences. The perp did not get away with anything. He was arrested, cuffed, mug shot and perpwalked in an orange suit, spent a night in a cell. He has had the bejeesus scared into him. This is how first time property offenses should be handled - anything else and we’d have jails full of otherwise productive citizens. There is almost no doubt this guy will never do something thois dumb again. There is absolutely no doubt he will repay te victims

“Daniel Borgertpoepping, the spokesperson for the office of Hennepin County Attorney Mary Moriarty, said that the attorney's office is still holding the suspect accountable, and claims its response is consistent with similar cases in which the suspect has no criminal record.

“We want to make sure we are very clear. What Mr. Adams did was wrong and we are holding him accountable for keying the cars. The HCAO did not reject or decline this case. We offered diversion as we often do with property damage cases when the person has no [criminal] record," said Borgertpoepping.


"Mr. Adams will have to complete the requirements of the program. He will also have to pay every penny in restitution to the victims. If he does not meet those requirements, we will proceed through the criminal legal system process.”

 

[M0unt41nm4n]

I have no doubt whatsoever that every single one of you demanding a pound of flesh right now would want nothing but grace, deference and a 2nd chance if this was your kid and that instead of because of politics he vandalize someone’s vehicle out of just boredom or because his sports team won or lost and he was hanging around with his buddies (which happens way more than this shit here). 100% guarantee it - to the man!

Not correct. I have had my kids do stupid crap that got them into trouble and I have told them.. "Don't do the crime if you can't do the time." (Baretta - 1976 - Sammy Davis Junior). I have no pity for my kids or any family member who did something where they clearly knew what they were doing was wrong.

"But if there is harm, then you shall pay life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, stripe for stripe." - Exodus 21:23–27

"Anyone who takes the life of a human being is to be put to death. Anyone who takes the life of someone’s animal must make restitution—life for life. Anyone who injures their neighbor is to be injured in the same manner: fracture for fracture, eye for eye, tooth for tooth. The one who has inflicted the injury must suffer the same injury." - Leviticus 24:17-22

@dalton108 I normally agree with a lot of what you post. You and I are 99.9% on the same page. But this is where I make the difference and depart.

My house is my castle. My car is my castle. If one vandalizes my castle, then sure, it causes pain to an "inanimate object". But it causes me PTSD for not being able to feel safe. I can't even take my Cybertruck in town because of fear that people will mess with it. When they mess with my "inanimate object" and do damage, then not only do I suffer damage via my insurance, I suffer my time having to get it fixed, I suffer not having my vehicle for who knows how long, etc. Yes, I suffer. You ask us to turn the other cheek? This guy was a 33yo man with a decent job with the State of Minnesota. He is not some 16 yo kid who may have not had their brain developed to understand true right from wrong. This guy clearly should know right from wrong... and in addition, he did it multiple times.

Sorry, no. We have laws. A felony is a felony and if someone breaks the law, they should be punished under said law. Going full circle here - "Don't do the crime if you cant do the time".

 

[M0unt41nm4n]

I’m not sure how any of you other Cybertruck owners feel, but I do feel terrorized. I’ve had people come up to me and start yelling at me in parking lots because of what I drive. Obviously, there are the middle fingers, exaggerated rolling of the eyes, and about anything else you can imagine to try to make some emotional political point. It is intentional, premeditated, and dangerous.

ThIs guy’s intention was to terrorize you. Intimidate you. It wasn’t your truck this time. But he wants you to know the threat is out there. Grace…no. It wasn’t some “I was being stupid” mistake. It was an “I am stupid and dangerous” action. This guy should be in jail.

Thankfully, these folks are easily moved on to the next panic. It will be tariffs, El Salvador, another pandemic, whatever. Give it another couple weeks and the spotlight won’t be on us anymore. I can already sense it lessening. Too bad these nutbags don’t get all crazy about litter or bad haircuts and start doing something about that.

Interesting that you post this...because it's exactly how I feel. I really don't know if some of the folks in this thread telling us to forgive, etc, have ever had their vehicles vandalized.

I have. It's not fun. Especially when I was young and only had liability insurance and someone went and dented my vehicle, or keyed my vehicle. I had to pay out of pocket.... $1000s. It's a horrible sinking feeling and it fills you with intense anger. I had someone back into my Ram 3500 while I was asleep and found the dent the next day. I looked around the parking lot for the idiot that did it and I found him. I called the cops and we nailed him and got him to pay. I lost my vehicle for a week while it was getting fixed in the shop. It sucked. After that I got dash cams for all my vehicles and guess what... I have caught idiots doing stupid shit and nailed them for it.

Now we are where I want to actually use my Cybertruck to do errands... but I can't leave it alone. Just today I had 2 middle fingers and it makes me wonder what those idiots would have done if I had left it parked and they were nearby.

After getting your car vandalized, you get sick of this crap and no... I won't turn the other cheek and forgive when I am shelling out my own funds and my time because someone was an idiot. After it happens to you, you want to see these people pay.

 

[dalton108]

Not correct. I have had my kids do stupid crap that got them into trouble and I have told them.. "Don't do the crime if you can't do the time." (Baretta - 1976 - Sammy Davis Junior). I have no pity for my kids or any family member who did something where they clearly knew what they were doing was wrong.

"But if there is harm, then you shall pay life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, stripe for stripe." - Exodus 21:23–27

"Anyone who takes the life of a human being is to be put to death. Anyone who takes the life of someone’s animal must make restitution—life for life. Anyone who injures their neighbor is to be injured in the same manner: fracture for fracture, eye for eye, tooth for tooth. The one who has inflicted the injury must suffer the same injury." - Leviticus 24:17-22

@dalton108 I normally agree with a lot of what you post. You and I are 99.9% on the same page. But this is where I make the difference and depart.

My house is my castle. My car is my castle. If one vandalizes my castle, then sure, it causes pain to an "inanimate object". But it causes me PTSD for not being able to feel safe. I can't even take my Cybertruck in town because of fear that people will mess with it. When they mess with my "inanimate object" and do damage, then not only do I suffer damage via my insurance, I suffer my time having to get it fixed, I suffer not having my vehicle for who knows how long, etc. Yes, I suffer. You ask us to turn the other cheek? This guy was a 33yo man with a decent job with the State of Minnesota. He is not some 16 yo kid who may have not had their brain developed to understand true right from wrong. This guy clearly should know right from wrong... and in addition, he did it multiple times.

Sorry, no. We have laws. A felony is a felony and if someone breaks the law, they should be punished under said law. Going full circle here - "Don't do the crime if you cant do the time".

I appreciate you. And I appreciate where you at I’m pretty sure you have seen me talk about how I would go HAM if somebody vandalized my truck which is one of the reasons that I don’t like to put it in harms way which limits how much I can use it right now.

Case in point my godson is in the house band for our local School of Rock chapter and they’re having a large performance in SoCal this weekend. This is perfect for my cyber truck the performance is on Sunday I should be heading out on Friday hitting up a couple of Birding spots (Bolsa Chica) among others and having just a ball. But I am not comfortable leaving my rig unattended in SoCal. It’s total bullshit and so I definitely won’t drive it for this trip I’m likely to fly and rent a car. The vet isn’t suitable for the gear that I wanna bring along and the FJ isn’t a comfortable drive. I could take the S but I just don’t want to.

I understand that CT owners like us feel like we’re under attack. I totally get it, I kind of have to we’re all in the same boat. We all know that this is true! [As an aside, imagine how you would feel in this moment where you are unquestionably being singled out if somebody got in your face and start telling you that ALL CARS MATTER - but that’s not what we’re here for.]

If you were in your vehicle like the made up story we got yesterday I’m with you. But it’s not your vehicle in that scenario that changes the calculus it’s your presence. As a society across generations across time across cultures (mostly) we have as a matter of public policy put a higher premium on the value of human life than on chattel (things). Philosophically, this shouldn’t be hard to understand or really debatable.

It’s a basic foundational premise of on which our jurisprudence around self protection and protection of property stand. You and I and everyone have every right to defend ourselves and our family (human beings) with deadly force (so long as the application of that force was reasonable) at any time. [*This does not extend your pets mind you because they too are chattel in the eyes of the law. Far too many people have learned this the hard way.]

But that does not extend to things. Things can be repaired, things can be replaced. Even if they can’t be replaced, you can be nearly fully compensated by being given restitution for the value of the thing that you lost. Your life is precious, singular and irreplaceable - but so is the life of any other human being, even one who is trespassing against your property. That’s just the way it is.

I totally understand potentially feeling unsafe. But as a legal matter these things are not really subjective. You’re compared to the “reasonable person” standard generally and some of what’s being advocated here in terms of protecting property is categorically unreasonable and will result in doom.

Likewise, again this dude losing his job? FAFO! That’s a private matter you absolutely did something stupid, illegal, and I suspect if either one of us caught them - pretty dangerous and possibly painful.

But the question presented is what should the government do to you. I think it’s best to put yourself in the shoes of the accused - if you can - when you’re thinking about this. Not for the sake of sympathy or even grace (which I still advocate for) but for the sake of conceptualizing the work that has already been done for us by generations before us about how we should deal with crime and punishment.

You’re fortunate to live in a nation where you are deemed innocent until proven guilty - that’s first in foremost. You are entitled to due process under the law. You are entitled to make your case, have competent roast presentation even if you can’t afford it and to confront your accusers. And then either a judge or a jury will decide your guilt and fate - all of those things have happened.

That’s how it should be. This is literally the American way.

A guy spends his whole life doing everything by the book, abiding the law, goes to a good school he gets a good job gets caught up in some political nonsense and does something stupid. He’s never committed a crime before. You don’t want leniency in that situation? You don’t think he’s scared shitless just like the Jewish guy who was crying because he got caught in NY?

Getting caught is kind of the point. Mercy is baked into the system. If it’s not, it’s not a system that will last. History tells us this.

I love to say that I’m an old testament guy (and I am I don’t forgive or forget quickly), but heck God sent a rainbow and his only son for a new covenant to move forward.

“The days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when I will make a new covenant…

I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts…
For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more.”

Jeremiah 31:31–34​

$20,000 worth of damage to property can be fixed with $20,000. It doesn’t require a pound to flesh to go with it.

 

[M0unt41nm4n]

I appreciate you. And I appreciate where you at I’m pretty sure you have seen me talk about how I would go HAM if somebody vandalized my truck which is one of the reasons that I don’t like to put it in harms way which limits how much I can use it right now.

Case in point my godson is in the house band for our local School of Rock chapter and they’re having a large performance in SoCal this weekend. This is perfect for my cyber truck the performance is on Sunday I should be heading out on Friday hitting up a couple of Birding spots (Bolsa Chica) among others and having just a ball. But I am not comfortable leaving my rig unattended in SoCal. It’s total bullshit and so I definitely won’t drive it for this trip I’m likely to fly and rent a car. The vet isn’t suitable for the gear that I wanna bring along and the FJ isn’t a comfortable drive. I could take the S but I just don’t want.

I understand that CT owners like us feel like we’re under attack. I totally get it, I kind of have to we’re all in the same boat. We all know that this is true! [As an aside, imagine how you would feel in this moment where you are unquestionably being singled out if somebody got in your face and start telling you that ALL CARS MATTER - but that’s not what we’re here for.]

If you were in your vehicle like the made up story we got yesterday I’m with you. But it’s not your vehicle in that scenario that changes the calculus it’s your presence. As a society across generations across time across cultures (mostly) we have as a matter of public policy put a higher premium on the value of human life then on chattel (things). Philosophically, this shouldn’t be hard to understand or really debatable.

It’s a basic foundational premise of on which our jurisprudence around self protection and protection of property stand. You and I and everyone have every right to defend ourselves and our family human beings with deadly force (so long as the application of that force was reasonable) at any time. [*This does not extend your pets mind you because they too are chattel in the eyes of the law. Far too many people have learned this the hard way.]

But that does not extend to things. Things can be repaired, things can be replaced even if they can’t be replaced you can be nearly fully compensated by being given restitution for the value of the thing that you lost. Your life is precious, singular and irreplaceable - but so is the life of any other human being, even one who is trespassing against your property. That’s just the way it is.

I totally understand potentially feeling unsafe. But as a legal matter these things are not really subjective you’re compared to the reasonable person standard generally and some of what’s being advocated here in terms of protecting property is categorically unreasonable and will result in doom.

Likewise, again this dude losing his job? FAFO! That’s a private matter you absolutely did something stupid, illegal, and I suspect if either one of us caught them - pretty dangerous and possibly painful.

But the question presented is what should the government do to you. I think it’s best to put yourself in the shoes of the accused if you can when you’re thinking about this. Not for the sake of sympathy or even grace which I still advocate for but for the sake the work that has already been done for us by generations before us about how we deal with crime and punishment.

you’re fortunate to live in a nation where you are deemed innocent until proven guilty that’s first in foremost. You are entitled to do process under the law. You are entitled to make your case and confront your accusers. And then either a judge or a jury will decide your fate all of those things have happened.

That’s how it should be. This is literally the American way.

A guy spends his whole life doing everything by the book goes to a good school he gets a good job gets caught up in some political nonsense does something stupid. He’s never committed a crime before? You don’t want leniency in that situation? You don’t think he’s scared shitless just like the Jewish guy who is crying because he got caught. Getting caught is kind of the point. Mercy is baked into the system. If it’s not it’s not a system that will last. History tells us this.

I love to say that I’m an old testament guy (and I am I don’t forgive or forget quickly), but heck God sent a rainbow and his only son for a new covenant to move forward.

“The days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when I will make a new covenant…

I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts…
For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more.”

Jeremiah 31:31–34​

$20,000 worth of damage to property can be fixed with $20,000. It doesn’t require a pound to flesh to go with it.

I agree with most of what you said and it’s good to see you mostly feel the way I do.

But I think that guy could have been charged a felony with possibility of expungement in the event he paid everything off within a reasonable period of time. First time offender? Fine… felony with expungement provided all parties are paid full damages within a 2 year time frame. That said, the guy didn’t just do 1 car. He did multiple. So I think it should be more severe. But the prosecutor refused to charge entirely and that really doesn’t offer much in the way of scaring others. I think there is a happy medium here where the guy may absolve himself if he proves himself, but at the same time, he has to jump through hoops to expunge the felony.

 

[dalton108]

I agree with most of what you said and it’s good to see you mostly feel the way I do.

But I think that guy could have been charged a felony with possibility of expungement in the event he paid everything off within a reasonable period of time. First time offender? Fine… felony with expungement provided all parties are paid full damages within a 2 year time frame. That said, the guy didn’t just do 1 car. He did multiple. So I think it should be more severe. But the prosecutor refused to charge entirely and that really doesn’t offer much in the way of scaring others. I think there is a happy medium here where the guy may absolve himself if he proves himself, but at the same time, he has to jump through hoops to expunge the felony.

Fair points.

 

[Outlaw1]

Nope. Jail time should still be on the table. At least weekends if your job is during the week. This way you can pay restitution and still have a consequence. But he will likely lose his job anyway.

Diversion programs should be for minors only. It is presumed their brains and decision making aren't fully developed. Not so much for adults.

Even if I were to consider diversion for adults it would be for negligence or a one time occurrence. That is in line with temporary fits of rage or crimes of passion. People can break or do uncharacteristic things on a one time basis if the conditions are right. And to ensure it was a one time thing, you can make sure they don't get into any more trouble for some period of time showing it was uncharacteristic. However.....

This guy vandalized 6 different cars. It wasn't a one time thing and he is a full adult. Causing a total of $20k worth of damage. That's on average $3,300 of damage per incident. That's at a felony level and at least a year in jail per MN. it was pre-meditated and he is a serial "vandalizer" that was caught.

I'm not saying he is any of the following things, but just think about if it was something other than cars. A serial arsonist (small fires), serial robber (small thefts), serial flasher (quick flashes), serial... wouldn't get diversion.

As I mentioned before. At least weekend jail to allow him to work to pay it off. I bet that would hit home. I can give grace for certain one time occurrences. But once it hits two, it's a different ball game (my kids included). Any leniency more than that (3+) makes no sense.

 

[Cyber Pete]

He keyed six cars. He did not blow them up. Total damage is $21k. He IS paying it back plus the cost of investigation. He is NOT being let off. I am a law-and-order throw-the-book-at them type, but this is a stupid mistake and the victims AND SOCIETY are better off with this result than jailing him. To those who say we need examples and this is a good case to use for an example - I agree - except that the message from this case is already clear to every possible perp - you will be caught and there will be consequences. The perp did not get away with anything. He was arrested, cuffed, mug shot and perpwalked in an orange suit, spent a night in a cell. He has had the bejeesus scared into him. This is how first time property offenses should be handled - anything else and we’d have jails full of otherwise productive citizens. There is almost no doubt this guy will never do something thois dumb again. There is absolutely no doubt he will repay te victims

“Daniel Borgertpoepping, the spokesperson for the office of Hennepin County Attorney Mary Moriarty, said that the attorney's office is still holding the suspect accountable, and claims its response is consistent with similar cases in which the suspect has no criminal record.

“We want to make sure we are very clear. What Mr. Adams did was wrong and we are holding him accountable for keying the cars. The HCAO did not reject or decline this case. We offered diversion as we often do with property damage cases when the person has no [criminal] record," said Borgertpoepping.


"Mr. Adams will have to complete the requirements of the program. He will also have to pay every penny in restitution to the victims. If he does not meet those requirements, we will proceed through the criminal legal system process.”

 

[Cyber Pete]

That's six cars we're aware of. I can't help but wonder how many Tesla vehicles he keyed that weren't in sentry mode.

 

[Litterboxer1]

He keyed six cars. He did not blow them up. Total damage is $21k. He IS paying it back plus the cost of investigation. He is NOT being let off. I am a law-and-order throw-the-book-at them type, but this is a stupid mistake and the victims AND SOCIETY are better off with this result than jailing him. To those who say we need examples and this is a good case to use for an example - I agree - except that the message from this case is already clear to every possible perp - you will be caught and there will be consequences. The perp did not get away with anything. He was arrested, cuffed, mug shot and perpwalked in an orange suit, spent a night in a cell. He has had the bejeesus scared into him. This is how first time property offenses should be handled - anything else and we’d have jails full of otherwise productive citizens. There is almost no doubt this guy will never do something thois dumb again. There is absolutely no doubt he will repay te victims

“Daniel Borgertpoepping, the spokesperson for the office of Hennepin County Attorney Mary Moriarty, said that the attorney's office is still holding the suspect accountable, and claims its response is consistent with similar cases in which the suspect has no criminal record.

“We want to make sure we are very clear. What Mr. Adams did was wrong and we are holding him accountable for keying the cars. The HCAO did not reject or decline this case. We offered diversion as we often do with property damage cases when the person has no [criminal] record," said Borgertpoepping.


"Mr. Adams will have to complete the requirements of the program. He will also have to pay every penny in restitution to the victims. If he does not meet those requirements, we will proceed through the criminal legal system process.”

Hopefully the next car he keys is yours ?

 

[PungoteagueDave]

Hopefully the next car he keys is yours ?

What kind of human are you? If this were your relative you would think differently. This is a property crime. Get a grip. I have had cars keyed twice. I would not advocate teh person go to jail, and if you do, it shows your limited intellect and basic understanding of how a civilized society deals with its miscreants.

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