Time to Reflect on my Reservation

[Cyber Man]

The Cayenne is surprisingly capable, I set the cruise and it just goes, even up the 6k foot climb from PHX to Flagstaff.

I second that. I tow an Airstream with my Porsche Cayenne. Sometimes people ask me if it’s really capable. I don’t go to the extent of saying there is a real Guinness world record of Porsche towing a Boeing, but I just say that it can tow 8000 lbs. Tongue weight is the limiting factor. The engine has more than enough power to tow a decent amount.

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[cgladue]

I used kWatt/hrs, the correct term is kWh? Where specifically did I mess up so I can correct it, thanks.

The solar array is rated in kw, Same with your Inverter, there is no time component on these items.

Your power usage or battery storage potential would be in kWh

 

[Neo]

Honestly, it really doesn't sound as you've done a complete engineering study on the numbers that you have, they don't all seem to add up correctly.

First, you state that the trailer will max out just shy of 8,000 lbs, that's either beyond or at absolute max for the Cayenne, which I believe maxes at 7716 lbs.

You indicate that with your 6.9kWatt/hrs solar array that you can charge in a few days. Well, I'm guessing you may have meant a 6.9kW array, not kWh. if it is kWh, then it is going to take 20 days.
But if it is a 6.9kW array, is it flat on the roof or are you going to be able to angle it to maximize power? And unless you park the trailer in the same direction every time, those cells would need to be able to rotate. If this isn't the case, then the panels are going to be nowhere near their maximum output.
But in any case, clouds happen. Especially as you get out of Arizona.


But what about other loads? What about lights, refrigerator, air conditioning (heat and cool)? They can take a lot of power as well.

You also need to be careful about adding that much battery storage to a trailer, you've got to keep the tongue weight within limits. That suggests that the batteries will need to go over the wheels.

And where do you expect to stay while on the road? Campgrounds may not let you in with this configuration.

And as many have found out, the nomadic camper life isn't the life for everyone. And you seem to be starting off on what may be a miserable to live in contraption with no windows.

Right, I fixed the Solar Array designations to kWatts, sorry about that.

I average around 18-28kWatts a day during the summer months and around 6-15kWatts a day during the winter. So right now with my current 28.8kWhrs of storage, pretty comfortable with a couple of days. When I add the 6 additional batteries, then I'll need more time, but the idea is to be able to charge the CT enough to get to a SuperCharger if I need to get about quicker. The panels are installed like this:

Driver's side awning (South facing) - 5 panels & is adjustable
Rooftop - 5 panels fixed flat
Passenger side awning (North side) - 4 panels + 1 water solar panel & limited adjustment

Still in progress are the porches that will fold up over the panels during transit, so at the moment I have to remove the awnings and leave at home when traveling.

The battery locations are based on roughly 60% center of the dual axles (6k lbs per axle) forward and 40% to the rear. This will keep the tongue weight in range. I have a false floor built to house the batteries, with the underside of the trailer insulated to 26.2R. So the batteries stay well above freezing. Lowest measured temps to date are 48f when it was 17f outside for 3 days - I'm confident they're protected well enough from moister and temperatures. My floors are also electrically radiant heated, so I'm sure that is helping keep them warm.

I've been living in the Trailer since August of 2021 while I'm completing the build and I purposely eliminated windows for security and thermal reasons. I do have an active air exchanger to keep the air fresh. No regrets on no windows... and I can always put up an outside camera on any of the 3 TVs, monitors to simulate windows, although I never do unless I get a proximity warning. Keeping an eye out for Sasquatch...

I haven't "wandered" per se yet, I've only gone to specific destinations where I knew I had a landing spot for the length of my planned visit. That is going to be a challenge for sure.

Yeah, the Cayenne has a limit of 7,800ish pounds capacity, but Taj-Ma-Haul is only around 4,000lbs? I have another 200lbs for kitchen cabinets, 200lbs for the shower, around 400lbs for the 2 more inverters and 1,800lbs for the 6 more batteries. But by then I want to be into the CT or whatever I decide. I really need to weigh it as it is currently. The empty trailer was 1,600 lbs. The Solar panels are 85lbs each and I have 14 of those, 1,200lbs right there...
I've halted adding more weight until I can migrate to the final solution. So as is, the Cayenne has zero issue pulling it, I can't even tell it is back there.

 

[SentinelOne]

The Cayenne is surprisingly capable, I set the cruise and it just goes, even up the 6k foot climb from PHX to Flagstaff.
Your hauler sounds awesome, I think I’ll have room for a side by side, not absolutely sure yet.
My current 28.8kWatt/hrs is good enough for a minimum of 4 days of no sun, or infinite with some sun
With the CT I’ll be able to send power bilaterally - another benefit I wasn’t sure of at announcement that I should’ve mentioned before!

Yeah, i17 climb is brutal (lived in Phi for 8 years), here in CO I have the Eisenhower grade which is also brutal! Sounds like you have the setup and the plan, if I had the time/retired I'd be doing the same!!! My Hauler is max width garage and with cabinet limited to 10-12" I can squeak by with a medium UTV - not the desert racer variety that has a wider stance (but not what I was going for here in Co in any event and im mostly KTM Dirtbikes anyhow). "The Cayenne is surprisingly capable" - of that I have no doubt! Enjoy!!!!

 

[Strykerwsu]

Get the Silverado EV later in the year. Shown to get 230 towing. Only one with a large enough battery which has plus and minuses but closest you will get unless compromise for the Ramcharger.

 

[UnRich1]

Have you considered the Ram Charger pick up truck? It’s supposed to be available in latter, 2024-2025. It is supposed to be a plug-in, electric hybrid, with an estimated range over 600 miles. I’m in a similar situation, wanting to tow a 6000 pound camper around; I’ve gotten a reservation for a Ram Charger has back up.

 

[Gundo]

This is quite a project. Thinking out loud here...
A single Powerwall stores 13.5 kWh, weighs 251 lbs and costs $11,500.
To build your desired capacity of 112 kwh requires 9 Powerwalls
2,250 lbs and $103,500, not including the inverter and wiring required
Hoping you have a source for some other cheaper and lighter battery
There must be a cost / range curve somewhere to show what it will actually cost you to tote these batteries around...

 

[Neo]

This is quite a project. Thinking out loud here...
A single Powerwall stores 13.5 kWh, weighs 251 lbs and costs $11,500.
To build your desired capacity of 112 kwh requires 9 Powerwalls
2,250 lbs and $103,500, not including the inverter and wiring required
Hoping you have a source for some other cheaper and lighter battery
There must be a cost / range curve somewhere to show what it will actually cost you to tote these batteries around...

I'm sourcing from Big Battery, it's the Rhino and I get it from them for $4,600 each? If I remember off of the top of my head. They are 14kWh and weigh 290lbs each. I think my budget was 2,400lbs for the batteries in total.
The impact to towing is a sunken cost, they aren't optional - but I do not know the impact.

They are quite a bit safer than a PowerWall, the specific LiFePo4 chemistry I'm not sure of, but they do not catch on fire. There's a good video of Average Joe puncturing them multiple times with a voltage meter on them and they still were functioning without any sparks/fire. And at a project cost of roughly $37k, they are significantly less expensive.

https://bigbattery.com/products/48v-rhino-lifepo4-276ah-14kwh

 

[Neo]

Have you considered the Ram Charger pick up truck? It’s supposed to be available in latter, 2024-2025. It is supposed to be a plug-in, electric hybrid, with an estimated range over 600 miles. I’m in a similar situation, wanting to tow a 6000 pound camper around; I’ve gotten a reservation for a Ram Charger has back up.

I haven't yet, I'm not confident the big three can produce a reliable product. I'd have to wait and see.
I *think* if it isn't a Tesla, then it's an ICE vehicle at this point. Something well proven that I could potentially convert to electric, but every time I think of this option I just feel like it is probably too large of a project to deal with?

If I kill the Cayenne, then it could be a stop-gap, another ICE vehicle?

The more comments on the thread, the more I'm leaning towards holding onto the reservation.

 

[Neo]

One other thought popped into my head. The Cayenne has really spoiled me in that when I drop Taj-Ma-Haul off at camp, I have a normal sized vehicle to run errands with.

That's a convenience that can't be overlooked and why I only mentioned the Tundra as a truck as it would still be a stretch. Doing a U-Turn in a full sized truck is a challenge. Same goes with a former FedEx truck, not a good turn radius, won't fit into a parking spot...

I don't know if I'm purposely talking myself into staying with the CyberTruck and I just accept the disappointments or not...

 

[Art138]

Judging from the date of your reservation,they may not get to you (invite to order) this year. Even if you get the invite you can ignore it and keep your place in line. Why not wait and see if in a couple of years range is extended. Time is on your side.

 

[Neo]

Judging from the date of your reservation,they may not get to you (invite to order) this year. Even if you get the invite you can ignore it and keep your place in line. Why not wait and see if in a couple of years range is extended. Time is on your side.

I wondered how that works/worked! You can simply say, "pass for now"?

 

[Art138]

I wondered how that works/worked! You can simply say, "pass for now"?

You ignore the invite to order. Your RN number will remain.

 

[HansonCT]

When I made my reservation for the Tri-Motor Full Self-Driving, it was late in the game, January 25, 2021...

I wasn't a fan of the design, but I was a fan of these main things:

• Tesla Infrastructure & ideology
• Energy Independence
• 500 miles range (250ish towing)
• $69k price at the time
• 17k Towing Capacity (tri-motor)

I'm going 100% electric personally, energy independence is a critical personal goal. I'm building Taj-Ma-Haul a 8.5 x 20 x 7.5 tall Toy Hauler Conversion which has become my residence on wheels. It has a 6.9kWatts solar array, 28.8kWatt/hrs of 112kWatt/hrs of planned battery storage and currently 12kWatts of inverter to be expanded to 36kWatts (to charge the CT).

I plan on becoming mostly nomadic traveling to see my aging mother, my kids as they disperse across the country, my sister, friends and a tour of our National Parks. I'll do this by traveling the distance the CT can take me, charge up the CT from Taj-Ma-Haul and sit a day or two to recharge Taj-Ma-Haul's battery and continue on to my destination. A deliberate leisurely pace.

You can see why the original target (let's be fair, nothing contractual/promised about the initial specs) of 500 miles of range, which I'm dropping to 250 miles for towing, was a pretty crucial part of my decision making. 250 miles for the day is a good towing day and roughly the distance from Tucson to Flagstaff (260).

Then we get the release data and boy was I disappointed.

• 320 miles Range (160ish towing)
• $99k
• 11k Towing Capacity

I can live with the towing capacity drop, Taj-Ma-Haul will come in around 8k/lbs when completed. The price is a stinger, I'm not going to lie. What is/was the dealbreaker was the range... Add insult to injury and we can pay whatever the additional cost is to get the optional battery upgrade for 420 440+ miles range? We're already $30k over and then another cost above that to still come up shy of the original target range of 500 miles?

I'm sitting on my reservation for now, but I'm really disappointed. Time has lessened the feelings and I'm glad I've been patient working through this, but man what a significant let down. There aren't any better options out there, electrically I mean. The CT is still the best electric option out there, but I am hoping the time it takes to get to my reservation number that Tesla get's closer to the original targets somehow, wishful thinking I know.

My stop gap vehicle, a Porsche Cayenne Turbo S is showing the wear I'm putting on it, now with 170k miles and 80k miles of towing. It has been marvelous so far, but the maintenance is increasing with its age and wear. So I've been considering all kinds of other stop gap -or- final solution vehicles. The GMC 3500 Safari, Toyota Tundra, second hand FedEx delivery vehicle or another newer Porsche Cayenne Turbo S. All of these range in cost between $30 and $60k for the ones I've looked at. If I go this route I'd convert it to an electric vehicle. Which would be less than ideal, I'd have to be in the business of dealing with the conversion and reliability of it...

I say all of this to hear constructive feedback, what are your thoughts?

Cheers,
Neo

I had canceled my reservation. Was originally the next model down dual motor because of the 4x4 and cost. I too was disappointed with the price increase after waiting 3 long years to find less range and $20k higher cost. Who drives at 70 mph anyway.. Feedback like the lawyer with his family in the car was my final moment. Range is an issue for me as well as cost. Had saved enough to pay cash even.. I do check in here to see what others are doing, please do post your final decision.

 

[Neo]

I had canceled my reservation. Was originally the next model down dual motor because of the 4x4 and cost. I too was disappointed with the price increase after waiting 3 long years to find less range and $20k higher cost. Who drives at 70 mph anyway.. Feedback like the lawyer with his family in the car was my final moment. Range is an issue for me as well as cost. Had saved enough to pay cash even.. I do check in here to see what others are doing, please do post your final decision.

As long as the Cayenne doesn’t cost too much to maintain I’ll be patient and see what happens. I have a feeling I’ll have a couple of years before my number is called and by then, maybe things improve?

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