Use Liquid Nitrogen (LN) to cool runaway battery fires in EVs?

[firsttruck]

What they really need is liquid nitrogen

Maybe.

Issues:
#1. Cost - Would need to significantly reduce cost for small scale liquid nitrogen ( LN ) application system.
#2. How to keep liquid nitrogen ( LN ) in contact with battery long enough to cool entire battery pack before the nitrogen turns to gas and floats away.

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Liquid nitrogen is used to transport damaged lithium ion batteries. Why is it not used to fire runaway battery fires in EVs?

Answered by Jacob Michael Lakin
Feb 11, 2023
.... Liquid nitrogen is expensive and water will do just fine, water is one of the best heat syncs we have really, and with a lithium ion fire you just need to get the Lithium ion fire to fall below the runaway temperature and then you'll be able to extinguish it, you could use a fire extinguisher but Lithium ion batteries are thermally sensitive, water works best to dissipate that heat and get out of the thermal runaway temp range.

https://www.quora.com/Liquid-nitrog...not-used-to-fire-runaway-battery-fires-in-EVs

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Why doesn't liquid nitrogen get used more in ordinary cooling situations?
It is cheap and easy to manufacture.

Answered by Edward Willhoft
Cryogenic and mechanical blast freezing
Upvoted by Daniel James Berger , Ph.D. in organic chemistry

The reasons for LN non-use in “ordinary situations” are several and include:

#1. Liquid nitrogen is NOT cheap at non-industrial scale.
The unit price of LN increases significantly with small volume purchases and can be up to 10 times the unit price of purchasing large, industrial quantities.

#2. LN needs to be stored in vacuum insulated tanks that are expensive to invest in or rent from the gas provider, unless LN is used on a large scale.

#3. The distribution systems for small deliveries is nowhere near as streamlined as that for large deliveries.

#4. There are potential health and safety issues that small users of the gas generally are not as familiar with and that are taken for granted among large users of LN. Proportionately, gas losses are higher with low volume storage than high-end users. Unless the LN is used on a continuous basis a significant amount is lost in bringing hardware down to LN operating temperatures. This makes low, batch use uneconomic for low-value (food) products.

#5. There is no doubt that for many food freezing operations, the economic benefits of large-scale and continuous cryogenic freezing, far outweigh those of small-scale freezing and even more so for quality (IQF) benefits absent in mechanical blast freezing that itself produces weight loss through forced evaporation of free moisture in the product - eg, uncooked, portion-sized meats.

https://www.quora.com/Liquid-nitrog...not-used-to-fire-runaway-battery-fires-in-EVs

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Inhibition effect of liquid nitrogen on thermal runaway propagation of lithium ion batteries in confined space
August 2022
Journal of Loss Prevention in the Process Industries
https://www.researchgate.net/public...on_of_lithium_ion_batteries_in_confined_space

Abstract In practical usage, lithium ion batteries (LIBs) pack is placed in a confined space. Due to the insufficient heat dissipation, the thermal runaway (TR) and propagation is more likely to occur. Thus, developing highly-efficient suppression agent for TR and its propagation in confined space is of great significance. In this paper, the suppression effect of liquid nitrogen (LN2) on TR and its propagation of LIBs is investigated. TR suppression effectiveness of LN2 under different injection amount, injection position, state of charge (SOC) and heating power are investigated. As observed, the heat of battery in confined space is difficult to dissipate. With the increment of battery spacing, the difficulty for TR of second battery is elevated. The cooling effect on battery is promoted with the incremental usage of LN2. Also, LN2 injected from the top of device shows better cooling effect than that injected from side of device. Overall, LN2 holds significant inhibitory effect on TR and its propagation of LIBs, extinguishing the flame quickly and reducing the surface temperature to a safe value in a short time.

--------------------------------------

Preventing effect of liquid nitrogen on the thermal runaway propagation in 18650 lithium ion battery modules.
December 2022
Process Safety and Environmental Protection Volume 168, , Pages 42-53 Process Safety and Environmental Protection
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0957582022008199

Abstract Thermal runaway (TR) and its propagation in lithium ion battery (LIB) are major factors of inducing serious fire accidents, and their prevention remains a technical barrier. In this work, a novel strategy with liquid nitrogen (LN) to prevent TR propagation (TRP) was proposed and investigated experimentally. Nozzle diameter screening and blank TRP experiments of module were conducted. To comprehensively understand suppression mechanism, LN cooling strategy was analyzed by changing the mass of LN. Results show that 4 mm diameter nozzle owns the best cooling capacity due to its maximum average cooling rate. TRP of a 2 × 3 module presents three typical stages with different TRP time and heating powers. LN exhibits excellent cooling prevention and delay capacity for different stages of TRP. During LN application, the maximum cooling rate and maximum cooling power for single battery reaches 34.25 ℃/s and 1529.6 W, respectively. The critical suppression temperature, Ttr ,cs was proposed to forecast the suppression effect before LN application, and TRP could be prevented below Ttr ,cs. The internal mechanism of LN preventing TRP was discussed in three typical scenarios. This work owns important guidance for process safety assurance and fire protection design of LIB system.

--------------------------------------

Study on the Suppression Effect of Cryogenic Cooling on Thermal Runaway of Ternary Lithium-Ion Batteries
by Guowei Zhang 1,2,*, Zheng Li 1, Hongyu Wang 2 and Diping Yuan 2 1 School of Safety Engineering, China University of Mining and Technology, Xuzhou 221116, China 2 Shenzhen Research Institute, China University of Mining and Technology, Shenzhen 518000, China * Author to whom correspondence should be addressed. Fire 2022, 5(6), 182;
Submission received: 24 October 2022 / Revised: 30 October 2022 / Accepted: 1 November 2022 / Published: 2 November 2022
https://www.mdpi.com/2571-6255/5/6/182

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Applicability of liquid nitrogen fire extinguishing in urban underground utility tunnel
October 2020
Case Studies in Thermal Engineering Volume 21
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2214157X20300654

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Sponsored

 

[TyPope]

Maybe.

Issues:
#1. Cost - Would need to significantly reduce cost for small scale liquid nitrogen ( LN ) application system.
#2. How to keep liquid nitrogen ( LN ) in contact with battery long enough to cool entire battery pack before the nitrogen turns to gas and floats away.

--------------------------------------

Liquid nitrogen is used to transport damaged lithium ion batteries. Why is it not used to fire runaway battery fires in EVs?

Answered by Jacob Michael Lakin
Feb 11, 2023
.... Liquid nitrogen is expensive and water will do just fine, water is one of the best heat syncs we have really, and with a lithium ion fire you just need to get the Lithium ion fire to fall below the runaway temperature and then you'll be able to extinguish it, you could use a fire extinguisher but Lithium ion batteries are thermally sensitive, water works best to dissipate that heat and get out of the thermal runaway temp range.

https://www.quora.com/Liquid-nitrog...not-used-to-fire-runaway-battery-fires-in-EVs

--------------------------------------

Why doesn't liquid nitrogen get used more in ordinary cooling situations?
It is cheap and easy to manufacture.

Answered by Edward Willhoft
Cryogenic and mechanical blast freezing
Upvoted by Daniel James Berger , Ph.D. in organic chemistry

The reasons for LN non-use in “ordinary situations” are several and include:

#1. Liquid nitrogen is NOT cheap at non-industrial scale.
The unit price of LN increases significantly with small volume purchases and can be up to 10 times the unit price of purchasing large, industrial quantities.

#2. LN needs to be stored in vacuum insulated tanks that are expensive to invest in or rent from the gas provider, unless LN is used on a large scale.

#3. The distribution systems for small deliveries is nowhere near as streamlined as that for large deliveries.

#4. There are potential health and safety issues that small users of the gas generally are not as familiar with and that are taken for granted among large users of LN. Proportionately, gas losses are higher with low volume storage than high-end users. Unless the LN is used on a continuous basis a significant amount is lost in bringing hardware down to LN operating temperatures. This makes low, batch use uneconomic for low-value (food) products.

#5. There is no doubt that for many food freezing operations, the economic benefits of large-scale and continuous cryogenic freezing, far outweigh those of small-scale freezing and even more so for quality (IQF) benefits absent in mechanical blast freezing that itself produces weight loss through forced evaporation of free moisture in the product - eg, uncooked, portion-sized meats.

https://www.quora.com/Liquid-nitrog...not-used-to-fire-runaway-battery-fires-in-EVs

--------------------------------------

Inhibition effect of liquid nitrogen on thermal runaway propagation of lithium ion batteries in confined space
August 2022
Journal of Loss Prevention in the Process Industries
https://www.researchgate.net/public...on_of_lithium_ion_batteries_in_confined_space

Abstract In practical usage, lithium ion batteries (LIBs) pack is placed in a confined space. Due to the insufficient heat dissipation, the thermal runaway (TR) and propagation is more likely to occur. Thus, developing highly-efficient suppression agent for TR and its propagation in confined space is of great significance. In this paper, the suppression effect of liquid nitrogen (LN2) on TR and its propagation of LIBs is investigated. TR suppression effectiveness of LN2 under different injection amount, injection position, state of charge (SOC) and heating power are investigated. As observed, the heat of battery in confined space is difficult to dissipate. With the increment of battery spacing, the difficulty for TR of second battery is elevated. The cooling effect on battery is promoted with the incremental usage of LN2. Also, LN2 injected from the top of device shows better cooling effect than that injected from side of device. Overall, LN2 holds significant inhibitory effect on TR and its propagation of LIBs, extinguishing the flame quickly and reducing the surface temperature to a safe value in a short time.

--------------------------------------

Preventing effect of liquid nitrogen on the thermal runaway propagation in 18650 lithium ion battery modules.
December 2022
Process Safety and Environmental Protection Volume 168, , Pages 42-53 Process Safety and Environmental Protection
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0957582022008199

Abstract Thermal runaway (TR) and its propagation in lithium ion battery (LIB) are major factors of inducing serious fire accidents, and their prevention remains a technical barrier. In this work, a novel strategy with liquid nitrogen (LN) to prevent TR propagation (TRP) was proposed and investigated experimentally. Nozzle diameter screening and blank TRP experiments of module were conducted. To comprehensively understand suppression mechanism, LN cooling strategy was analyzed by changing the mass of LN. Results show that 4 mm diameter nozzle owns the best cooling capacity due to its maximum average cooling rate. TRP of a 2 × 3 module presents three typical stages with different TRP time and heating powers. LN exhibits excellent cooling prevention and delay capacity for different stages of TRP. During LN application, the maximum cooling rate and maximum cooling power for single battery reaches 34.25 ℃/s and 1529.6 W, respectively. The critical suppression temperature, Ttr ,cs was proposed to forecast the suppression effect before LN application, and TRP could be prevented below Ttr ,cs. The internal mechanism of LN preventing TRP was discussed in three typical scenarios. This work owns important guidance for process safety assurance and fire protection design of LIB system.

--------------------------------------

Study on the Suppression Effect of Cryogenic Cooling on Thermal Runaway of Ternary Lithium-Ion Batteries
by Guowei Zhang 1,2,*, Zheng Li 1, Hongyu Wang 2 and Diping Yuan 2 1 School of Safety Engineering, China University of Mining and Technology, Xuzhou 221116, China 2 Shenzhen Research Institute, China University of Mining and Technology, Shenzhen 518000, China * Author to whom correspondence should be addressed. Fire 2022, 5(6), 182;
Submission received: 24 October 2022 / Revised: 30 October 2022 / Accepted: 1 November 2022 / Published: 2 November 2022
https://www.mdpi.com/2571-6255/5/6/182

--------------------------------------

Applicability of liquid nitrogen fire extinguishing in urban underground utility tunnel
October 2020
Case Studies in Thermal Engineering Volume 21
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2214157X20300654

--------------------------------------

Liquid propane is cheap enough. We could use that.

 

[Cyber Man]

Great analysis! I mentioned this on the other thread. We definitely need some creative ways to extinguish battery fires instead of using the standard brute force method of hosing down everything with water. Probably we need pre-wired micro sprinklers installed in the right areas of the battery compartment and combustible areas in the car. The vehicle need not carry any water. When fire is detected, an inlet hose can shoot out of the car that firefighters can use to connect and water down the whole thing. This combined with fire blanket or other high tech solution is needed to solve this long pending problem. EV fire risk is a major adoption blocker irrespective of how much statistics we show on how safe EVs are. It’s high time OEMs start working on some creative solutions. Every EV that catches fire will be in headlines all over the place and will slow down the adoption.

 

[SlegMD]

Depends on the maintenance of keeping a compressed gas on the truck? Not really that interested. Plus probably has to be checked by qualified individuals, basically like having to go to emissions.

As stated by OP it is difficult to store low amounts.

Not my field but there are special requirements at the hospitals.

 

[Woodrick]

The manufacturers are starting to handle it from slightly different fronts, reducing the runaway from starting to begin with and then limiting impact when a battery goes into runaway.

You can look at the Cybertruck battery to see some of the changes, like increase of empty volume in the battery case to contain and to properly vent the gasses.

And when thinking about something like liquid nitrogen, don't forget that you can't spray it on the batteries. The batteries are in a case.

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