Warren Gets Hot About People Fighting FSD

[FutureBoy]

WARNING: If you get offended enough by colorful language to miss the appropriateness of said language, you may want to skip this one.

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[Crissa]

There's alot of people who work in safe streets that have lost someone. My spouse was hit and run by a drunk driver when she was 18. She had previously lost friends to drunk drivers.

This is a thing that happens. And we need to redirect the anger to the road-builders who put car damage ahead of lives when they design lanes and walk paths. To drivers who don't drive safely. Who don't use safety features.

Not to blame those trying to make things safer.

-Crissa

 

[Quicksilver]

Artificial intelligence will never overcome natural human stupidity.

You can never idiot proof everything because Mother Nature is constantly upgrading the common idiot.

After 67 years on this earth I'm firmly convinced that the intelligence is being bred out of the human race at an alarming rate.

There's a lot of people who work in safe streets that have lost someone. My spouse was hit and run by a drunk driver when she was 18. She had previously lost friends to drunk drivers

We have chronic drunk drivers because we tolerate drunk drivers. There are legions of lawyers that specialize in getting habitual drunk drivers off and allowing them to keep driving.
In Germany the first DUI gets you a minimum one year suspension of driving privileges. The second DUI gets you banned from driving for life. They don't care if you can't get to work because you are a chronic drunk.
I have no problem with FSD. Most people on the road today are not driving. They are aiming and hoping for the best.
I was a professional driver most of my life and I have seen the result of bad drivers doing stupid things on the highways.
The problem with FSD is that you are still going to have the knuckle dragging, mouth breathing morons out there that won't have it.
You can be the safest driver in the world but it only takes one idiot to kill you.
When I was a Drivers Trainer/License Tester and Safety NCO in the Army I had to investigate accidents involving military vehicles.
Very few of the incidents I investigated were true "accidents". They were caused by a human doing something stupid or not paying attention to what they were doing.
As a trainer I had to try to get soldiers to unlearn bad habits they had developed since getting a drivers license (usually when they turned 16). Male soldiers were the hardest to retrain. Go figure.
It is far too easy to get a drivers license in this country.
The minimum age for a drivers license should be 18 and everyone getting one should have to attend a professional drivers training course (not the high school Drivers Ed that is mostly a joke).
This should be retroactive. If you have never had formal drivers training you should have to attend before you renew your license the next time.
You should also have to have a DOT style medical physical and mental evaluation at least every ten years in order to keep your license.
I still have a Commercial Drivers License and because I'm diabetic (not insulin dependent) my doctor has to fill out a form when I renew my license that states my condition is not severe enough to bar me from driving safely.
Unless FSD is Federally mandated it will be a long time before all vehicles have it.

 

[firsttruck]

Artificial intelligence will never overcome natural human stupidity.

You can never idiot proof everything because Mother Nature is constantly upgrading the common idiot.

...
Unless FSD is Federally mandated it will be a long time before all vehicles have it.

Yup, idiots seem to be getting more idiotic and it will be decades before all vehicles are FSD
BUT in less than 10 years it is possible,
FSD is 10-20x better than the average driver,
cost of robotaxi rides for most people is significantly cheaper than car ownership.

Even as little as ONE MILLION robotaxis on U.S. roads would save a significant number of lives & reduction in severe injuries.

 

[Ogre]

Yup, idiots seem to be getting more idiotic and it will be decades before all vehicles are FSD
BUT in less than 10 years it is possible,
FSD is 10-20x better than the average driver,
cost of robotaxi rides for most people is significantly cheaper than car ownership.

Seems like within 2-5 years Tesla is going to have Level 4++ self driving. It'll be able to do 99% of driving. I suspect that last 1% will take another 20 years or more to lick though.

FSD is better than the average driver 99 times out of 100, then its stuck. Drop a life sized baby doll 5 foot behind a FSD car in a parking stall, what does it do?

 

[FutureBoy]

Coincidentally Wham Bam TeslaCam just did a video comparing Autopilot to Humanpilot.



This is far from scientific. But it is interesting to see situations where Autopilot saved the day compared to situations where it didn’t respond at all.

I assume these videos are all not using FSD version 10 as that hasn’t been out very long. And since DOJO isn’t up yet I’m willing to bet there will be much more AI skill attained in the near future.

Even so, it looks like AI is doing pretty well so far.

 

[Ogre]

Coincidentally Wham Bam TeslaCam just did a video comparing Autopilot to Humanpilot.

The pickup in the second video rolls *twice*. I seriously doubt the Cybertruck would even roll once if T boned like that. I know my Model Y wouldn't.

 

[Crissa]

The pickup in the second video rolls *twice*. I seriously doubt the Cybertruck would even roll once if T boned like that. I know my Model Y wouldn't.

Yeah, and did you see how little damage that midsize hatchback took in comparison? It was probably totaled, but not for certain. That truck on the other hand... Ouch.

-Crissa

 

[Ogre]

Yeah, and did you see how little damage that midsize hatchback took in comparison? It was probably totaled, but not for certain. That truck on the other hand... Ouch.

-Crissa

Pretty sure if you take (or deliver) a hit like that your car is totaled regardless.

Just imagine how much money this saves you when Autopilot prevents an accident.

One thing I noticed is the current version of AP doesn't do well with animals. I've seen some evidence the next version using the FSD 10 code will do better. I've seen them training it against everything between dogs and moose. Most everything on this continent is covered anyhow.

 

[Crissa]

AP won't save animals over the stability of the car.

So it seems like the faster you go, the larger the animal it'll ignore.

The next FSD should be much better at this.

-Crissa

 

[FutureBoy]

One thing I noticed is the current version of AP doesn't do well with animals. I've seen some evidence the next version using the FSD 10 code will do better. I've seen them training it against everything between dogs and moose. Most everything on this continent is covered anyhow.

I’m curious if they are training it to handle things like alligators, monster pythons, or large turtles. I’ve seen enough videos of deer, moose, dogs to assume there will be plenty of training there. But various animals have very different modes of transport and with that very different predictions of movement should be trained into the system.

I’ve wondered though why it seems like deer are so hard to respond to. I thought I read somewhere that the cameras were capable of seeing infrared. If so, I would expect the cameras to be capable of seeing deer in the dark long before a human eye. But maybe the system just hasn’t had enough samples to train off of yet.

And of course I’ll be awaiting the ability to deal with large birds (I’ve experienced a head on windshield collision at high speed with a goose), bears (cause come on, gotta watch out for bears), bison (certainly never want to hit a bison), and other less than common animals.

 

[FutureBoy]

Oh, and I’ve yet to see a video of FSD avoiding a neighborhood cat. Personal experience is that cats, squirrels, raccoons, skunk, etc are pretty regular animals that get into difficult scenarios. They of course won’t do significant damage or generally endanger your life. But the psychological impact of hitting a neighborhood cat could be pretty significant. Or a gaggle of ducklings following mommy across a 4 lane highway…

 

[Crissa]

There's lots of videos of FSD or Autopilot dealing with deer or moose.




-Crissa

 

[FutureBoy]

There's lots of videos of FSD or Autopilot dealing with deer or moose.




-Crissa

Yes, there are lots of those videos which is why I’m curious about FSD not handling them well yet.

Other animals get far less video and I assume far fewer actual interactions. On a recent road trip though I just barely missed hitting some kind of tortoise on the freeway at night while I was traveling about 80 mph. The tortoise looked to be about 12 inches tall and my headlights hit it just in time for me to see it pull its head into its shell. I missed hitting it by maybe 1 foot. But at that moment I thought I was going to hit it and die in a crash as a result. Anyway that was the first time I’ve ever come across a tortoise in the many years of driving I’ve done.

 

[Crissa]

You handle deer by not responding if you're going too fast.

I don't see anything wrong with the way FSD is dealing with it, or Autopilot.

-Crissa

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