Lightning gets new LFP Batteries starting next year (2024)

[Old Spice]

Saw this announcement at Lightning forum...

Official: $3.5B Ford LFP Battery Plant Coming to Michigan. Lightning Receives LFP Batteries Starting 2024

https://www.f150lightningforum.com/...6b-ford-lfp-battery-plant-coming-to-michigan/

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[Crissa]

Bulky but durable.

-Crissa

 

[HaulingAss]

Bulky but durable.

-Crissa

There is probably room for bulky, at least on the standard range 220 mile version, but every extra pound of batteries is a pound that cannot be payload.

 

[firsttruck]

There is probably room for bulky, at least on the standard range 220 mile version, but every extra pound of batteries is a pound that cannot be payload.

Losing payload capacity is a real significant problem with Ford F-150 Lightning EV because weight wise it is very inefficient and is already deficient in payload capacity (max 1,800lbs for 320mi Extended-Range pack)

If final Cybertruck total gross weight meets their original goals and payload capacity is 3,500lbs, then Tesla in the future could do a 280mi Cybertruck with 1,000lbs of heavier CATL LFP 4680 cells and only lose 1,000lbs of payload capacity (2,500 max) & still beat Ford nickel celled Lightning and many ICE Ford F-150s.

 

[firsttruck]

Also no nickel.

 

[charliemagpie]

I think competitors such as Ford would like to keep comparing the CT to its F150.

if GM had released the CT, it would have called it Cybertruck 250.

The public will come to realize comparing the Cybertruck to their offering is like comparing apples and oranges.

 

[cvalue13]

Losing payload capacity is a real significant problem with Ford F-150 Lightning EV because weight wise it is very inefficient and is already deficient in payload capacity (max 1,800lbs for 320mi Extended-Range pack)

point taken, but I believe the ER model’s payload is just over 2,000 (the 1,800 figure was later increased by 235lbs).

since the truck’s absolute maximum towing capacity is 10,000lbs, that’s about 1,000lb tongue weight and leaves about 1,000lb of payload. put 4 me-sized folks and a wet dog in the truck, and you’re over it. (though, I’d say you were already pushing it by looking at any 1/2 ton platform, much less any existing BEV, to pull 10K for anything more than short distance trips.)

reality is, when it comes to towing with any existing BEV the real enemy isn’t payload, but instead drag and frontal area of the trailer. so battery capacity and charge infra become the real limiting factors to towing big

Tesla has charge infra in the bag, and I hope the CT offers a very high range modeL. But as for a …

then Tesla in the future could do a 280mi Cybertruck

… that 280mi version isn’t towing much of anything too very far. Unless Tesla changes the physics of drag, that thing with any trailer of significant frontal area/weight won’t go more than 90 miles.


But a 500mi CT model plus Tesla’s charge infra on the other hand, would let people get from station to station.

 

[fhteagle]

If the Lightning people are whining about poor cold weather performance now, it's going to be doubly bad with an LFP pack. Conventional LFP can't be charged if the pack itself is below 0C. There are modified chemistries in the lab that can be charged colder than that, but I have not seen any make it to commercial production yet (if anyone knows of one please tell me!). Going to be spending a ton of time and killerwatthours preheating before charging. Power and depth of discharge loss below 0C is not awesome either.

So, definitely some durability advantages going to LFP, but also some serious downsides that Ford needs to address ASAP.

 

[Crissa]

Losing payload capacity is a real significant problem with Ford F-150 Lightning EV because weight wise it is very inefficient and is already deficient in payload capacity (max 1,800lbs for 320mi Extended-Range pack)

You're not going to lose that much because the difference is in the cell level, not the pack level. So the pack won't weigh 25% more - only a small part of it will weigh more. Advantage poor pack design.

And the longer range version already had less capacity.

Conventional LFP can't be charged if the pack itself is below 0C

You can't charge any lithium ion batteries below their freezing point. My motorcycle with NMC can't be charged below 0C but my Mazda's new LFP starter battery can - because it will keep itself warm with internal thawing coils.

-Crissa

 

[Prime8]

Anybody know? Do the LFP batteries lose charge quicker when idle? My GF's brand new model 3 lost 15% just sitting over 2 days in 50-70 degree weather. Her previous M3 didn't lose anything close to that...

 

[Sirfun]

Don't LFP batteries work better for V2H. Maybe that is a selling point for Ford. Lots of people on here talk about how the Cybertruck has to have a frunk comparable to the Lightning (not me). But, having the ability to back up your home energy is HUGE. I think Tesla will have dropped the ball if the Cybertruck doesn't have that capability!

 

[Prime8]

Don't LFP batteries work better for V2H. Maybe that is a selling point for Ford. Lots of people on here talk about how the Cybertruck has to have a frunk comparable to the Lightning (not me). But, having the ability to back up your home energy is HUGE. I think Tesla will have dropped the ball if the Cybertruck doesn't have that capability!

Yep V2H is a big selling point but also a big expense to implement seamlessly. Having enough juice to run power cords from the truck to essential appliances will be good enough for most people that experience infrequent power outages. For those areas that lose power often the seamless solution would be an important feature for sure.

 

[Don Kedick]

Anybody know? Do the LFP batteries lose charge quicker when idle? My GF's brand new model 3 lost 15% just sitting over 2 days in 50-70 degree weather. Her previous M3 didn't lose anything close to that...

Not sure about the LFP part but if you have sentry on that sounds reasonable. Disabled mine due to lack of concern and the fact I typically lost about 5% overnight on 3LR. Uses about 230-300 wh when on.

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