Cybertruck Highway Range Test (Dual-Motor AWD) -- Run Until Battery Empty (by Out Of Spec)

[Woodrick]

You think there is HUGE demand for $100K-$120K Tesla Cybertrucks? At least a few years worth of production? Personally, I am not as bullish on Cybertruck sales at high prices as you are. I think demand for versions with the $20K markup will die out within a year. If it lasts even that long it will be a very bullish sign for Tesla's ability to sell millions at prices $20K lower!

Tesla has created a product here with insane demand, it's just a matter of how much people can actually afford! But your insanely bullish projections seem unrealistic. As production volume ramps, prices will have to come down.

Aren't you lucky that the price is only $58k? Even the fully loaded Foundation series is only $80k.

I have no idea what you mean by markup. Just like Ford, Tesla has a special fully loaded version. You don't have to buy it.

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[HaulingAss]

Not to mention “I’m losing 40% of the range!“ because “I don’t charge above 80% and stop at 20%”

Only an inexperienced person would think you can't use all the range, when you need it. I never hesitate to charge my Model 3s up to 100% the night before, if it will eliminate a Supercharger stop, the thing is, with 300 miles of range that is not a very common occurrence. If you regularly drive well over 300 miles per day, sure, an EV can do it, but it might not be the right choice for you because Superchargers cost approaches that of gasoline.

Not many people drive over 300 miles per day on any kind of frequent basis. None of this is rocket science, it just requires a functioning brain.

 

[HaulingAss]

Aren't you lucky that the price is only $58k? Even the fully loaded Foundation series is only $80k.

I have no idea what you mean by markup. Just like Ford, Tesla has a special fully loaded version. You don't have to buy it.

How are you calculating the $58K price? I think the anticipated pricing is $79K.

The lower prices will not be available untill after the Foundation Editions cease production, probably near the end of the year. But wouldn't it be shocking if demand for the truck is so high that Tesla just keeps selling them, even with the $20K premium?

I'm in favor of any strategy that accelerates the ramp to high production. I want Cybertrucks to become a common sight on public roads all over the country within 4 years.

 

[HitchHiker71]

Exactly - for the vast majority of truck buyers doing truck things - which to be clear is not the majority of 150/1500 series truck buyers - they are only a minority of that market segment - no one cares about 0-60mph. That market segment cares about towing range/stability, off-road capability, payload, towing capacity, bed capacity, etc. IMHO the CT isn't meant for truck buyers who do truck things. IMHO it's meant to become the latest minivan replacement - it's an attempt to create a new market segment really - and that segment does not align well with real truck buyers. I'm fine with this, a CT will meet most of my light hauling/towing needs just fine for example, but for real truck buyers, I really don't think any BEV pickup compares well to existing ICE pickups apples to apples, especially for those who tow/haul heavier loads, or do major off-roading. Stick with the ICE pickups for now for this type of buyer.

 

[HitchHiker71]

Where did you get 70 mph from? It's not the EPA definition of Highway driving.

EPA highway is probably above about 50 and mostly not stop and go. Remember EPA standard were introduced by Reagan and the 55 mph national speed limit.

Current EPA highway tests use a range of speeds between 55-65mph. Too often I see people saying it's 45mph - but this isn't the case. They are likely confusing the fact that the current EPA ratings use 45% highway/55% city to calculate the combined range - which is what the EV ratings also use.

 

[Woodrick]

How are you calculating the $58K price? I think the anticipated pricing is $79K.

The lower prices will not be available untill after the Foundation Editions cease production, probably near the end of the year. But wouldn't it be shocking if demand for the truck is so high that Tesla just keeps selling them, even with the $20K premium?

I'm in favor of any strategy that accelerates the ramp to high production. I want Cybertrucks to become a common sight on public roads all over the country within 4 years.

I'm looking at the Tesla website!

If you didn't order in week 1, there will be NO difference in delivery times
I'm pretty sure that Tesla will have non-Foundation AWD on the road before the end of the 3rd quarter, this year, but that's to be seen.
There are some expectations that Tesla will have about 100,000 deliveries this year. I think that I am safe saying that there won't be 100,000 Foundation Series built.

But even then, that may cover reservations made in only the first few weeks
Foundation Series is only for those that ordered in the first few hours and want a fully optioned vehicle.

 

[HaulingAss]

Exactly - for the vast majority of truck buyers doing truck things - which to be clear is not the majority of 150/1500 series truck buyers - they are only a minority of that market segment - no one cares about 0-60mph. That market segment cares about towing range/stability, off-road capability, payload, towing capacity, bed capacity, etc. IMHO the CT isn't meant for truck buyers who do truck things. IMHO it's meant to become the latest minivan replacement - it's an attempt to create a new market segment really - and that segment does not align well with real truck buyers. I'm fine with this, a CT will meet most of my light hauling/towing needs just fine for example, but for real truck buyers, I really don't think any BEV pickup compares well to existing ICE pickups apples to apples, especially for those who tow/haul heavier loads, or do major off-roading. Stick with the ICE pickups for now for this type of buyer.

I've never been in a full-sized ICE pickup that I would consider good at off-roading because they are so wide, they have typically had a solid rear axle with leaf springs and tend to lack four-wheel steering. I would guess the Ford F-150 Raptor probably is reasonably good at non-technical off-roading, but they cost as much as the Cybertruck and you are stuck with a gas-sucking ICE engine that is gutless (relative to the CT).

As a life-long off-roader, I don't think it makes sense to recommend a full-sized pickup truck for off-road use. But the Cybertruck will be more capable than most of them. My favorite off-roader was a 1969 Nissan Patrol, but even that short-wheelbase rig was handicapped by having two solid axles and it was not very good on the highway due to low gearing, even in high range. Full sized pickups have an acceptable ride on the highway, but most suck off-road due to their long-wheelbase, wide width, and often the solid rear axle. Ironically, many are just starting to move to fully independent rear suspensions in preparation for electrification, because solid axles and leaf springs handicap battery placement.

My F-150 4x4 is used for truck things, not off-roading. Woodcutting, land management, appliances and furniture, picking up building materials, motorcycles, small boats and towing a horse trailer to the vet or local trails. The Cybertruck will exceed the functionality of our F-150 at every single one of these "truck tasks". I don't use my F-150 for any tasks that the Cybertruck will not be good at. It is a superior replacement in all of our use cases, and we don't use our F-150 for ANYTHING that doesn't require a truck or a tow hitch. It's just a truck.

So people who say "Cybertruck isn't meant for truck people who do truck things" don't have a clue. Yes, I get it that it's not good for every truck use case, like over-the-road long-distant towing, but most truck people don't do that. It's a minority of truck people who have any need to do interstate towing. So it's a ridiculous notion that Cybertruck is not meant for people who use their trucks to do truck things. No one truck is the best at everything, the Cybertruck hits that sweet spot for most truck people. Those who can't come to terms with its unique aesthetic will never be able to appreciate its superiority at most truck tasks.

 

[ninja6r]

That was my point, that's a LOT of heavy, expensive batteries.

There's a paradigm shift that people just don't realize. For most people, 450 mile range means that you may only have to fill up once a week or every two weeks. (of course every two weeks means that you have to get a loan on the gas) EVs charge nightly at home.
People have gotten used to the ICE paradigm. It takes a little time to get used to the EV paradigm.

Most people rarely take road trips. I just did 2900 miles in December. One leg was 12 hours long. there wasn't that much time I spent just charging. I combined the charging stop with other required stops, like bio-breaks and meals.

For those straight-thru folks, my wife just reminded me of a friend of hers that had a stroke. Dr attributed it to being in the seat constantly on a cross-country drive.

Greater to or equal? Are you suggesting that EV trucks put out more pollution?

2900 miles and I had charging all along the route. Hardest job was choosing which one I wanted to stop at.

Listen, I've had my model 3 for 5 years now. I've had zero issues with long trips, and I've got the SR+, so I get the "charge at home to full" argument. I also know what real highway range is and what it is in cold weather. It's not an issue anymore now that there are plenty of superchargers around the areas that I'll do long trips to.

And I know all the issues can't be solved with one truck. You'll never please everyone. Probably why there are like, a thousand types of F150s you can order. One truck doesn't fill everyone.

My point is that you have to hit that range for the people who tow or drive in winter conditions where superchargers are few and far between. Also, some of us don't want to sit charging for an hour every 100-140miles or whatever the final towing range of this thing will be. Plus, you'll be unhitching each time because there are no pull-through spots. If Tesla had 30 such spots every 100 miles in the US, I doubt I'd complain at all and would agree, anything over 400 would probably be stupid. But, none of that is true and we won't see that for a decade or more. My guess would be 10-20 years. So, as the specs stand now, I just don't see this as a high volume product right now. Good discussion though. Hopefully it continues to get better, both the range and supercharger network.

 

[ninja6r]

You think there is HUGE demand for $100K-$120K Tesla Cybertrucks? At least a few years worth of production? Personally, I am not as bullish on Cybertruck sales at high prices as you are. I think demand for versions with the $20K markup will die out within a year. If it lasts even that long it will be a very bullish sign for Tesla's ability to sell millions at prices $20K lower!

Tesla has created a product here with insane demand, it's just a matter of how much people can actually afford! But your insanely bullish projections seem unrealistic. As production volume ramps, prices will have to come down.

I would even say the demand for the $80k version is not high either. Tesla is just doing what they have to in order to get max return on the number of trucks they'll produce over the next 18-24 months. It's really what happens after those numbers fall off a cliff that I'm most interested in. Do they go double-stack battery? Do they try and get a few on the crap RWD version? Do they give you a LR RWD version? Do they drop the price down to $60k? We don't know. Tesla doesn't even know. By then though, plenty of reviews will be out and it'll be easier for all us to decide how to spend our money.

 

[Woodrick]

Listen, I've had my model 3 for 5 years now. I've had zero issues with long trips, and I've got the SR+, so I get the "charge at home to full" argument. I also know what real highway range is and what it is in cold weather. It's not an issue anymore now that there are plenty of superchargers around the areas that I'll do long trips to.

And I know all the issues can't be solved with one truck. You'll never please everyone. Probably why there are like, a thousand types of F150s you can order. One truck doesn't fill everyone.

My point is that you have to hit that range for the people who tow or drive in winter conditions where superchargers are few and far between. Also, some of us don't want to sit charging for an hour every 100-140miles or whatever the final towing range of this thing will be. Plus, you'll be unhitching each time because there are no pull-through spots. If Tesla had 30 such spots every 100 miles in the US, I doubt I'd complain at all and would agree, anything over 400 would probably be stupid. But, none of that is true and we won't see that for a decade or more. My guess would be 10-20 years. So, as the specs stand now, I just don't see this as a high volume product right now. Good discussion though. Hopefully it continues to get better, both the range and supercharger network.

That's a horse of a different color and therefore a different conversation with different criteria.

Right now, long distance towing is a BIG question. Short distance isn't a problem.

While there are a lot of camper haulers, they are still pretty small in the scheme of things.

 

[HaulingAss]

It's really what happens after those numbers fall off a cliff that I'm most interested in. Do they go double-stack battery? Do they try and get a few on the crap RWD version?

Huh? The fact that you think the concept of a Cybertruck double-stack battery is something Tesla would ever even consider, just shows how little you know about Tesla. That's not even under consideration and it never will be. And for very good 1st principles reasons.

Tesla will continue to increase battery capacity through increases in battery energy density, while reducing prices. They will never resort to double-stacking batteries. If you want that, you can buy a Hummer, LOL!

 

[MyKidCouldDrawThat]

Seems on par to me... Driving at a constant high speed with little to no regen and in cold temps.. maybe 20% "loss" of range over the 320 total range.

Someone not familar with EVs i suppose might see this and be a bit confused. If someone did this type of test in an ICE pickup truck, the results would be similar as far as range loss goes. Of course, no one actually tests ICE vehicles like this.

On par... I was expecting more like "insane technology bandwagon". When will that one be available?

 

[ninja6r]

Huh? The fact that you think the concept of a Cybertruck double-stack battery is something Tesla would ever even consider, just shows how little you know about Tesla. That's not even under consideration and it never will be. And for very good 1st principles reasons.

Tesla will continue to increase battery capacity through increases in battery energy density, while reducing prices. They will never resort to double-stacking batteries. If you want that, you can buy a Hummer, LOL!

LOL. Never said they would. Just pondering IF they would.

 

[HaulingAss]

My point is that you have to hit that range for the people who tow or drive in winter conditions where superchargers are few and far between. Also, some of us don't want to sit charging for an hour every 100-140miles or whatever the final towing range of this thing will be. Plus, you'll be unhitching each time because there are no pull-through spots. If Tesla had 30 such spots every 100 miles in the US, I doubt I'd complain at all and would agree, anything over 400 would probably be stupid. But, none of that is true and we won't see that for a decade or more. My guess would be 10-20 years. So, as the specs stand now, I just don't see this as a high-volume product right now. Good discussion though. Hopefully it continues to get better, both the range and supercharger network.

Tesla knows they don't have to have a truck for every single use case. Currently, electric trucks only make up less than 1% of the truck market. They don't have to replace 100% of trucks for another decade or more, so they are focussing on the majority of the pickup truck market that never does long-distance towing. Even semi-trucks are a higher priority for Tesla than RV'ers.

BTW, it's not true there are no pull through Superchargers. In fact, just last summer Tesla installed a new Supercharger station that is now closer to my house than the previous closest. The existing one had eight 150 Kw stalls and two 75 kW stalls, none of which were pull-through. The new station, about two miles South, has sixteen 250 Kw stalls, all of them pull-through. Every year Tesla adds more stalls that can charge a tow vehicle without disconnecting the trailer. But that is still very much a niche use that Tesla is not going to go very far out of their way to address since it's easier to address the majority of miles trucks do that don't require pull-through stalls.

Tesla didn't get to where they are by making irrational decisions that don't make good business sense and they are not a charity for RV'ers. If you want to haul around a small house with you, you can buy gas or diesel while the rest of us go electric. In time even pickups towing big loads over long distances will be electric. For now, you will have to wait your turn or put up with the current state of range and charging stations. Tesla does not exist to transistion the neediest minority to electric before they take care of the majority of the market.

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