Dealing with FSD and Pay attention to the road

[HaulingAss]

Awesome. Much appreciated. I’ll have to try that. I wish there were more contributors like yourself that were actually trying to help rather than troll.

OK, I have some productive input.

Your profile says you are an engineer. That's good because this is an excercise in reverse engineering of the attention monitoring system. When it first swtched from monitoring tugs on the steering wheel I was still tugging on the steering wheel and was getting a fair number of "pay attention" warnings. While it took me longer to stop habitually tugging on the steering wheel, it didn't take me long to start doing three things:

1) Keeping my eyes in view of the camera.
2) Habitually glancing forward through the windshield (even if checking out other things like my side mirrors, the sights and our dog in the backseat).
3) Minimize the length of time I would look at the center screen (or the backseat, etc.) without looking up.

Once I started doing those three things (the first week), I nearly stopped getting warnings. The key is to not look away from the road ahead for more than short periods. If you need to use the center screen, or check out other stuff, make sure you glance forward often.

My baseball cap was the one continuing issue until I raised my seat higher and consciously placed my brim at a more upward angle. No more warnings.

As an engineer you should have a head start at reverse engineering (modifying your behavior) in response to system behavior. The system is literally designed to modify your behavior in the direction of looking forward more frequently (and to ensure it can see you doing that).

It ain't rocket science and it will save a few lives.

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[DAE1]

OK, I have some productive input.

Your profile says you are an engineer. That's good because this is an excercise in reverse engineering of the attention monitoring system. When it first swtched from monitoring tugs on the steering wheel I was still tugging on the steering wheel and was getting a fair number of "pay attention" warnings. While it took me longer to stop habitually tugging on the steering wheel, it didn't take me long to start doing three things:

1) Keeping my eyes in view of the camera.
2) Habitually glancing forward through the windshield (even if checking out other things like my side mirrors, the sights and our dog in the backseat).
3) Minimize the length of time I would look at the center screen (or the backseat, etc.) without looking up.

Once I started doing those three things (the first week), I nearly stopped getting warnings. The key is to not look away from the road ahead for more than short periods. If you need to use the center screen, or check out other stuff, make sure you glance forward often.

My baseball cap was the one continuing issue until I raised my seat higher and consciously placed my brim at a more upward angle. No more warnings.

As an engineer you should have a head start at reverse engineering (modifying your behavior) in response to system behavior. The system is literally designed to modify your behavior in the direction of looking forward more frequently (and to ensure it can see you doing that).

It ain't rocket science and it will save a few lives.

As an engineer, I can see the potential for owner-to-owner variations, even if we assume the exact position of the camera in relation to the rest of the vehicle is static across all CTs (even FS). These variations could be based on eye and face shape, seat height, seat tilt angle, drivers posture (I tend to lean to the left), use of glasses/ hats, long hair, facial hair, dry eyes causing excessive blinking, etc., all in addition to one’s driving behavior (i.e. checking mirrors).

As an engineer, I cannot think of a logical reason to not have the main display tilted towards the driver as this would reduce the angle that is required for one to turn their head to see the screen, thus reducing awareness alerts. Personally, I feel more comfortable being able to see my rear view display, but this requires me to turn my head.

I would not have thought that simply making the road visualization display full screen would reduce awareness alerts, though I can kind of understand the logic if I assume it’s a true representation of my surroundings. I wonder if individual/ unique calibration per driver will roll out at some point.

I also notice that I get more alerts when driving on highways versus streets which is counter intuitive to me. I would think the awareness alerts should be more lax for highway driving given that previous auto-steering awareness was almost non-existent, but maybe this is driven more by gov regulations than Tesla.

 

[REM]

As an engineer, I can see the potential for owner-to-owner variations, even if we assume the exact position of the camera in relation to the rest of the vehicle is static across all CTs (even FS). These variations could be based on eye and face shape, seat height, seat tilt angle, drivers posture (I tend to lean to the left), use of glasses/ hats, long hair, facial hair, dry eyes causing excessive blinking, etc., all in addition to one’s driving behavior (i.e. checking mirrors).

As an engineer, I cannot think of a logical reason to not have the main display tilted towards the driver as this would reduce the angle that is required for one to turn their head to see the screen, thus reducing awareness alerts. Personally, I feel more comfortable being able to see my rear view display, but this requires me to turn my head.

I would not have thought that simply making the road visualization display full screen would reduce awareness alerts, though I can kind of understand the logic if I assume it’s a true representation of my surroundings. I wonder if individual/ unique calibration per driver will roll out at some point.

I also notice that I get more alerts when driving on highways versus streets which is counter intuitive to me. I would think the awareness alerts should be more lax for highway driving given that previous auto-steering awareness was almost non-existent, but maybe this is driven more by gov regulations than Tesla.

Tesla's number one engineering focus is safety. It overrides every other aspect of design. With that in mind, they leave the screen at a neutral angle because the assumption is that you may have passengers, and they would be the best person to control music, climate, and other things while you focus on driving. Angling the screen towards the driver would give some people the false sense of priority. Tesla wants you to pay attention to the road. It's also why I don't think Tesla will release another vehicle with an "instrument cluster" type of screen behind the steering wheel. The placement of which has always been very stupid, since it's always occluded by the wheel, and tilting your head to look through it completely removes your eyes from the road.

Your binocular (or focusing) vision only exists in a somewhat narrow field between the overlap of your left and right eye. This gives us the ability to hone in on something, but it sacrifices peripheral vision.

Give it a try. Drive down the road and look up where you rear view mirror is (or was). Your vision has to shift significantly up and to the right; far away from that central axis pictured above.

Now try to glance at the position of your rear view camera as it's displayed in the top center of your screen. This position is much closer to alignment with the central axis to where you central and peripheral are. Your peripheral vision is much wider that your focused vision. Meaning you can spot check your digital rear view camera MUCH easier than looking at a traditional side or rear view mirror since your focus vision has to do less adjustments.

Checking your physical side view mirror also cause you to pretty much completely lose what's directly in front of your vehicle. Compare your side view mirror spot checks with your digital camera too. You will find that you are able to refocus much quicker from the angle of the screen than the angle and distance of your physical mirrors.

bonus tip: i mentioned this in another comment, but the cabin camera can very accurately predict exactly where your focus is. Accurate enough to know if you are glancing at your media controls or your camera

 

[Crissa]

Yep! I complain about this all the time, it is stupid. They need to give more time to go through menus and adjust things. 10 seconds should be the minimum time before ...

You should never be looking away from the road for ten seconds.

Dude. No.

I don’t see how this comment adds any value here.

Context. Plenty of people can supervise without whining they want it to do something it can not yet or should not do.

For me, FSD is so unsafe that it should not be used for continuous driving. I would like to use it momentarily if I have to look at the screen for something (find a charge station, for instance) in order to not run off the road, but then the nag alert kicks in, defeating the purpose of the FSD.

That's the purpose of FSD; not the purpose of FSD Supervised.

-Crissa

 

[gillfoto]

OK, so let me start by saying that I love my CB. FSD latest version is awesome. and I have done over 12k miles so far, some of them on long 1500-mile round trips with FSD (mostly on)

However, attention monitoring is driving me nuts.

If I change the temperature....Pay attention....
If I change volume....pay attention...
if I change media..... pay attention...
If I look for closest coffee location on destinations..... pay attention...
If I get gum out of my center console... looking forward almost all of the time.... Pay attention...
If I sneeze ..... yep...sneeze... pay attention....
even if I am looking straight out of the front window.... I can get.... pay attention...

I then have to disengage FSD manually (and I report it) just to make sure I don't get a strike

I have cleaned the internal camera to make sure its not that.

Is this what you are all experiencing as well... seems even more sensitive since last update.... and these are all things i am doing while still being responsible looking at the road, like i would in any car....

I don't use FSD much right now, but I have thought it was time to start using voice commands more. Maybe Tesla Tech could integrate part (narrow column or tab)of monitor for voice command shortcuts. On another note while the techies are at it could they modify screen text options ie to make bigger Text for people with vision needs.

 

[dalton108]

I don't use FSD much right now, but I have thought it was time to start using voice commands more. Maybe Tesla Tech could integrate part (narrow column or tab)of monitor for voice command shortcuts. On another note while the techies are at it could they modify screen text options ie to make bigger Text for people with vision needs.

So much can be done with voice controls. One that I doubt very few people know is that you can change the ride height in the CT!

It’s a cool parlor trick to show your passengers too. “Set ride height to high.”

 

[CybertruckPilot]

I wish that you could use the turn signal to tell FSD to turn instead of maintaining it's current route or cancel the turn signal if you instead want to continue forward.

With a destination in Nav and FSD on, I hit the blinker at an exit earlier than the one selected for the route.
CT went ahead and exited, then rerouted after exiting and followed the new route.

 

[dalton108]

This works on city streets too. Not as well in the CT as it does in X and S but it does work on FSD and I am sure that this is where things are headed.

FSD needs to accept input from the driver signaling a turn as an edict and do it immediately if it sees that there is a cross street that is a viable left or right turn and assuming it’s not too late to safely make that maneuver it needs to be trained to obey.

My biggest problem right now is routing in navigation. It does the dumbest things in my neighborhood and I just need to be able to override that without having to stare at the screen and try to figure out how to reroute. I’ve got turn signals, the car needs to listen to them.

The hubris of thinking “all input” is error is potentially going to prevent them from getting this right. It is my hope that they improve this on the S3XY cars and move the CT in this direction.

 

[oscar60]

GET THIS——after I Cancelled tesla insurance because false collision warnings raised my rate $40. In a week after 5 months of score of 99, All erroneous collision warnings stopped and FSD never worked better. Scam to raise rates?

 

[Crissa]

On another note while the techies are at it could they modify screen text options ie to make bigger Text for people with vision needs.

Yeah, Tesla is not great for accessibility, unfortunately.

-Crissa

 

[Stuck4ger]

I can tell you that the only issue I have really with FSD and my CB is related to routing. I frequently have to disengage because I want to go a different route than the truck wants to take other than that I mostly spend my time with my arms folded.

When that issue happens I just make a quick drop pin waypoint to get me going my desired route. And then delete it before arriving

 

[dalton108]

When that issue happens I just make a quick drop pin waypoint to get me going my desired route. And then delete it before arriving

I have mild dyslexia and that just would not be a good solution for me. Takes a couple of seconds and (a bit of focus) for me to process that kind of information, not a good combination for operating a moving motor vehicle.

I just know I wanna go that-a-way, and should be able to tell the car with a simple gesture and have it obey.

 

[Crissa]

I just know I wanna go that-a-way, and should be able to tell the car with a simple gesture and have it obey.

Use a turn signal.

Other than that, intervene. That's why you're the captain and its the helmsman.

-Crissa

 

[L3it3R]

Over the last week I’ve done five separate 200+ mile round trip driven completely on FSD. And aside from when I’m legitimately looking at the screen or away from the road, not once did I get a single “pay attention” warning that wasn’t warranted.

User error is still my diagnosis.

 

[Tecyber1]

If Tesla ever watched video with audio they would have a directory full of “Oh fuck off! Jesus Christ” filled videos. Hahaha!

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