Elon confident "we'll allow you to text and drive [with FSD] in next month or two"

[Jabman]

Thanks, maybe another post would be worthwhile so it's not buried here. I've tried dumbing down my smartphone as much as possible and just keeping essential apps. Browser is the main holdout though. Wish others would do the same. Tiktok, doom scrolling, Instagram, Facebook, etc. are a huge drain on society. The quicker people realize this the better.

Amen

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[YDR37]

I'm confused. I can text hands-free using voice commands in my MX. Tap the Mic on the yoke, tell it who I want to text and speak the text. Tap Send and we're done. What am I not understanding?

Elon is suggesting that you will soon be able to text in the traditional way -- with your hands (or "voice-free"). You will be able to pick up your phone with one hand, look at the phone instead of the road, and use your other hand to type.

While driving.

 

[YDR37]

To be fair… there has been no specific mention of “Unsupervised” yet.. we are now speculating.

..unless I’ve missed something

This still could be just a nag adjustment while using Supervised FSD.

…because Elon has never stretched the truth… said no one ever

Elon specifically mentioned "unsupervised autonomy" in the Tesla Shareholder's meeting earlier this week:

Now that we believe we have full self-driving, that we have autonomy solved or at least within a few months of having it unsupervised autonomy solved at a reliability level significantly better than human – that means it’s time to ramp up production because the value proposition is now much greater than a regular car.

The killer app really is for people, can you text and drive? Or can you sleep and drive? Can the car take you to your destination? Or do you need to pay attention and be and have to drive it? And before we allow the car to be driven without paying attention, we need to make sure it’s very safe. Like I said, we’re on the cusp of that. I know I’ve said that a few times, we really are at this point. And you can feel it for yourselves with the 14.1 release.

Could Elon be stretching the truth? Well, yes, that does seem possible. But he certainly mentioned it.

 

[Crissa]

The legal standards for who is operating a vehicle and how to prove it will be an interesting development to watch. My best guess is Tesla will not provide the means to prove it’s their fault and not yours…

They are already required to. That's one of Elon's beefs with NHTSA, that all Teslas report collisions back to NHTSA.

-Crissa

 

[ModelXer]

Elon is suggesting that you will soon be able to text in the traditional way -- with your hands (or "voice-free"). You will be able to pick up your phone with one hand, look at the phone instead of the road, and use your other hand to type.

While driving.

Ah!
I think a lot of states will disagree. In NY it's a $450 fine and 5 points on your license under the "No Touch" law (which applies even when stopped at a stop light).

 

[YDR37]

I think a lot of states will disagree. In NY it's a $450 fine and 5 points on your license under the "No Touch" law (which applies even when stopped at a stop light).

I think just about every state will disagree. So perhaps what Elon is really saying is "Tesla's technology will soon be sophisticated enough to allow hands-on texting while driving, but if this doesn't happen, we will blame state regulators".

 

[Crissa]

I think just about every state will disagree. So perhaps what Elon is really saying is "Tesla's technology will soon be sophisticated enough to allow hands-on texting, but if this doesn't happen, we will blame state regulators".

This already exists, though.

https://abc7news.com/post/mercedes-...us-personal-car-driverless-tomorrow/17550044/

The question is, however, how we're going to get regulations like tickets to transfer to the 'driver'. Right now it's just a promise from automakers, but what we probably need is a way for a car to report to law enforcement that it's in automated mode, and give them a peek at the car's internal logging to make sure it jives with their observations.

There was an earlier thread about having say, a cyan light for automated cars. But I think the consensus here would be that would be easy to fake and easy for aggressive drivers/vandal to take advantage of.

-Crissa

 

[YDR37]

This already exists, though.

The Mercedes Drive Pilot system exists, but it only works under limited conditions on certain freeways in California and Nevada. I'm sure Elon would assure you that Tesla's system will work everywhere.

My understanding is that state laws banning texting while driving apply to all vehicles; there is currently no exemption for Drive Pilot. In Germany, though, you apparently can text while Drive Pilot is active.

There was an earlier thread about having say, a cyan light for automated cars. But I think the consensus here would be that would be easy to fake and easy for aggressive drivers/vandal to take advantage of.

Mercedes is testing turquoise marker lights in Germany:

The exterior lighting now permitted by special exemption indicates to other road users whether the conditionally automated driving function is activated. This also allows traffic authorities and police to recognize the system status more easily and determine whether the driver is allowed to engage in other activities during conditionally automated driving. The special marker lights are integrated into the front and rear lights as well as the side indicators in the exterior mirrors. When DRIVE PILOT is activated, these lights illuminate continuously in turquoise – the color Mercedes-Benz aims to establish for conditionally automated driving and higher. Turquoise has already been included in various standards and draft regulations (SAE J3134, UNECE and China Compulsory Certification).

 

[Crissa]

The Mercedes Drive Pilot system exists, but it only works under limited conditions on certain freeways in California and Nevada. I'm sure Elon would assure you that Tesla's system will work everywhere.

All systems have limits. And FSD won't let you go hands free outside of those limits.

My understanding is that state laws banning texting while driving apply to all vehicles; there is currently no exemption for Drive Pilot. In Germany, though, you apparently can text while Drive Pilot is active.

In the US, anyone with enough money to pay for a Cybertruck new will have enough to weasel out of the citation. This isn't legal advice, but lawyers are generally able to squeak you out of these sort of things - it's why despite having laws against hand-held devices and reading non-mounted devices and things going back decades, California had to write not one, but new two anti-device laws.

Mercedes is testing turquoise marker lights in Germany:

Germans drive weird and unaggressively (despite reputation for speed) so I doubt it'll really be applicable outside of Germany.

-Crissa

 

[L3it3R]

No way! Elon never says anything that hasn't been fully thought out and reviewed by legal.

It was still a mistake. That’ll bring huge scrutiny down on FSD before the feature even exists.

 

[YDR37]

Mercedes is testing turquoise marker lights in Germany:

Germans drive weird and unaggressively (despite reputation for speed) so I doubt it'll really be applicable outside of Germany.

The turquoise ADAS lights have also been approved for testing in California and Nevada.

Turquoise ADAS lights have been accepted under SAE Standard J3134 for "Automated Driving System (ADS) Marker Lamps". SAE is an industry group, not a government regulator, so this doesn't necessarily mean that turquoise lights will be required by law. However, the existence of an SAE international standard does mean that this approach has credibility in the industry, and that it is available to other manufacturers (not just Mercedes).

In the same way, Tesla developed NACS chargers and ports; NACS was then accepted as SAE Standard J3400. Now lots of other companies are building cars with NACS ports and installing NACS chargers.

 

[Crissa]

The turquoise ADAS lights have also been approved for testing in California and Nevada.

Turquoise ADAS lights have been accepted under SAE Standard J3134 for "Automated Driving System (ADS) Marker Lamps". SAE is an industry group, not a government regulator, so this doesn't necessarily mean that turquoise lights will be required by law. However, the existence of an SAE international standard does mean that this approach has credibility in the industry, and that it is available to other manufacturers (not just Mercedes).

In the same way, Tesla developed NACS chargers and ports; NACS was then accepted as SAE Standard J3400. Now lots of other companies are building cars with NACS ports and installing NACS chargers.

Making a standard before seeing how it works in the real world is a bad, bad idea.

-Crissa

 

[Gaximus]

It's always been the case for wheels, but not for self-driving systems.

If a driver is using Ford BlueCruise or Tesla FSD (Supervised). and the system makes a mistake, the driver still has partial or full liability, because he is required to supervise the system.

But if Tesla offers Unsupervised FSD, and the system makes a mistake, then the liability is all on Tesla, just like if a wheel fell off. That's a big difference from Supervised FSD, and it means that Tesla will have a lot more legal exposure.

This true. But could be worth it. If they had unsupervised FSD and you could sleep, or have your vehicle meet you at the airport. They would sell a lot more FSD, at $8000 it would cover the damages of only one in 10 totaled crashes, and the percentage would probably be much much lower, and not always totaled. (Medical could be higher) but statistically they could still make a lot, plus the increased sales numbers. And they would also raise the prices of FSD, Elon once said it would be worth $100k(but I doubt that).

 

[YDR37]

This true. But could be worth it. If they had unsupervised FSD and you could sleep, or have your vehicle meet you at the airport.

Yup. And that's why Tesla is trying to achieve Unsupervised FSD that works reliably everywhere. The costs associated with technical R&D, regulatory negotiation, and assumption of liability are high -- but the potential rewards are higher.

 

[BlueRocket]

I have a Juniper MY with FSD and just got a new CT w/ on Nov 5 -- the CT is awesome. We use FSD all the time in both vehicles. V14 on the MY is much improved -- the YTers are not lying. From driveway to parking lot stall (Costco, HD, mall, Publix, even Walt Disney World) without any intervention happens all the time. CT came with v13 and its about the same as v13 was on the MY before v14 update on Oct 24.

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When Tesla finally gets to "Unsupervised", I'm convinced it will be just the removal of the attention "nag" warning. YOU will still be responsible for any violation or accident. YOUR insurance will still be charged. It's wishful thinking to assume Tesla would be responsible for your vehicle if FSD makes a mistake. The only time I think Tesla would assume responsibility is when they open up Robotaxi fleet enrollment to customer vehicles -- only then, when Tesla is using your vehicle in their fleet will Tesla be responsible. As a TSLA shareholder, the price of FSD would have to skyrocket to make it economically feasible for Tesla to assume the liability of every vehicle using FSD.

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