NJ Anti-Incentives for EV Adoption

[Crissa]

Don't shoot the messenger.

Naw, totally with you. California pro-rates ours based upon vehicle in a totally opaque way but it does mean I pay basically the same or more for my motorcycle registration as my car.

It's bonkers. Weight, efficiency, footprint should be our impacts but we do it by... Price, mostly. Then axles. Then finally weight.

No one does it that way, though.

and other high tax, poorly run...

Look, that's both wrong on every metric you care to look at and really trollish way to come at this pleasant conversation. Please don't bring your tribal politics onto the forum where it'll get our threads locked.

Why do we still have those problems? Because the voters keep hiring those people. You've got to start tipping the scales.

Because some people are taught they can't do anything about 'politics' and so, don't select based upon the actual actions of the politicians.

Anyhow, that's my message: Ask your local politicians what they've done, check their voting record and see if it matches, then vote. Don't think you can't! ^-^

-Crissa

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[mcdull]

Naw, totally with you. California pro-rates ours based upon vehicle in a totally opaque way but it does mean I pay basically the same or more for my motorcycle registration as my car.

It's bonkers. Weight, efficiency, footprint should be our impacts but we do it by... Price, mostly. Then axles. Then finally weight.

No one does it that way, though.


Look, that's both wrong on every metric you care to look at and really trollish way to come at this pleasant conversation. Please don't bring your tribal politics onto the forum where it'll get our threads locked.


Because some people are taught they can't do anything about 'politics' and so, don't select based upon the actual actions of the politicians.

Anyhow, that's my message: Ask your local politicians what they've done, check their voting record and see if it matches, then vote. Don't think you can't! ^-^

-Crissa

Even if you and your whole family vote, there will be little to no impact in a red state/district. If you think your few votes can make a visible impact, how do Alabama, Kentucky, and other deep-red states, whose education/health care, etc rank in the bottom quartile in the US, remain deep-red?

There is nothing you/your family/my family can do to swing a red district into a blue district when the red votes lead the blue votes by thousands even in rural districts. Those people who only want to believe in what they want to believe in will never change their minds despite facts being presented to their faces. It's the same idea years ago when humans debated about the earth being flat vs. round. Humans are prone to confirmation bias. With misinformation so readily available online, millions of Americans cannot discern a lie and truth especially the ones who don't have higher education. Remember some Americans actually followed the advice of injecting bleach during Covid?

My point is we are doomed and paralyzed at least for decades to come. Until there are more educated voters coming online, which will take decades, especially in the lighter red state. We will see a much adoption of clean energy, which could have been accelerated if everyone acts based on the best science we know, compared to China.

Look at Florida's recent banning of lab-grown meat. This kind of policy brings us backward in society. Same as FL refusing the Federal Clean energy grants. Completely anti-scientific and act based on politics.

 

[Crissa]

Even if you and your whole family vote, there will be...

That's not even the hint of logical. We're talking together right now, literally informing hundreds of people each. I don't own my family, but I do control my words: And I'm here telling people their vote matters. It all comes down to who participates and who doesn't.

My County Supervisor won his election by just 12 votes. 12. Do you talk to 12 people in a day?

Please participate, please make sure the politician you vote for not only supports policies you like - but that their votes and policies also match up.

They say they want to lower X? Make sure they voted for it - not just campaigned. Make sure the law they voted for actually did lower X. Sometimes it doesn't!

Look at Florida's recent banning of lab-grown meat. This kind of policy brings us backward in society. Same as FL refusing the Federal Clean energy grants. Completely anti-scientific and act based on politics.

That's the ticket! If those are your motivations, act on them!

-Crissa

 

[Woodrick]

Even if you and your whole family vote, there will be little to no impact in a red state/district. If you think your few votes can make a visible impact, how do Alabama, Kentucky, and other deep-red states, whose education/health care, etc rank in the bottom quartile in the US, remain deep-red?

There is nothing you/your family/my family can do to swing a red district into a blue district when the red votes lead the blue votes by thousands even in rural districts. Those people who only want to believe in what they want to believe in will never change their minds despite facts being presented to their faces. It's the same idea years ago when humans debated about the earth being flat vs. round. Humans are prone to confirmation bias. With misinformation so readily available online, millions of Americans cannot discern a lie and truth especially the ones who don't have higher education. Remember some Americans actually followed the advice of injecting bleach during Covid?

My point is we are doomed and paralyzed at least for decades to come. Until there are more educated voters coming online, which will take decades, especially in the lighter red state. We will see a much adoption of clean energy, which could have been accelerated if everyone acts based on the best science we know, compared to China.

Look at Florida's recent banning of lab-grown meat. This kind of policy brings us backward in society. Same as FL refusing the Federal Clean energy grants. Completely anti-scientific and act based on politics.

I absolutely disagree with this. There are so many districts around the country where the lines are a lot closer to 50/50.
Yes, once elected it's hard, but it's a lot easier to sway a 1,000 votes than one would think. For that matter, just get another 1,000 people out to vote!

And look at Florida, the upheaval is already occurring. DeSantis has pissed a lot of people off!
And the worse thing that you can do it piss off those in the middle. Of which are the majority!

 

[Gaximus]

Gas tax is pay per mile driven. EV tax is a blanket fee that assumes you drive certain miles. Billing your fair share based on mile is more fair than a flat fee which is often based on high mileage that most people don't drive in a year.

It’s a tough problem to solve, how else you going to prove how many miles you have driven in the state. Want the government tracking your driving with GPS with so they can tax your miles? Id would make since that you should only get charged this per driver and not per vehicle, since you can’t drive more than one at a time though.

 

[bigmoose70]

How about all you NJ people vote for sane law makers and you wouldn’t have this problem.

 

[mcdull]

It’s a tough problem to solve, how else you going to prove how many miles you have driven in the state. Want the government tracking your driving with GPS with so they can tax your miles? Id would make since that you should only get charged this per driver and not per vehicle, since you can’t drive more than one at a time though.

That's a good point. Difficult to solve. I don't think I would have a 100% fair solution to that besides taking a picture and uploading it; you only get billed by the State the vehicle is registered in. However, it's not 100% fair to other state's roads when you travel to other states. I guess we can't get to 100% fair. Each alternative (flat fee/upload odometer) poses some degree of unfairness.

 

[Outdoors]

I don't know if it comes down to voting. This thread is a rabbit hole waiting to happen.

Be involved in one's community. Help others. Be a resource to people. Volunteer. Be open minded to others. In other words lead by example. It's funny who will come knocking on your door for advice.

Pretty easy, and ya get invited to dinner a lot. Change the perception one person at a time whatever fair minded approach to anything one is trying to change.

Not sure mile based tax is really a big issue at the moment. I could be wrong however.

 

[Gaximus]

That's a good point. Difficult to solve. I don't think I would have a 100% fair solution to that besides taking a picture and uploading it; you only get billed by the State the vehicle is registered in. However, it's not 100% fair to other state's roads when you travel to other states. I guess we can't get to 100% fair. Each alternative (flat fee/upload odometer) poses some degree of unfairness.

Agreed. EVs could do a state based odometer reading. CO: 8,000 KS: 400, etc. And when filing taxes you’d upload that data and submit taxes to the states you drove in, but also feels like all kinds of privacy issues with that.

Best option is probably charge the tax at the super chargers, and assume all other charging is happening home.

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