FSD is not good enough for me. Sorry

[REM]

Did you visit his Youtube channel? Beside spoon feeding do you need us to wipe your ass too?

Yes, I'm aware of this dude and his antics.

So what you are telling me is that an insider (employee) filmed himself testing a beta product, and put that video up (for clout) and was summarily fired (rightfully so) from Tesla, who received a damaged reputation from it because the average viewer has NO context of how this "test" was conducted?

Do you know for a fact this branch he was using ever became available to the public? Or was it for internal use only, and he clearly violated his NDA and his duties as an employee by misrepresenting a product?

Funny enough, I didn't even ask you the question but here you are piping up with mainstream news article on the subject. News corps are now absolutely notorious for putting outright blatant lies in their content to sir up as much engagement as possible.

No serious person will refer to CNBC for an objective view into this matter.

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[REM]

FSD will disengage right before impact blaming you for this accident saying see FSD wasn't even on when you crashed.

FUD.

You sound like someone who has a personal vendetta and has never actually read the terms and conditions of the FSD program.

 

[SCTesla]

Yes, I'm aware of this dude and his antics.

So what you are telling me is that an insider (employee) filmed himself testing a beta product, and put that video up (for clout) and was summarily fired (rightfully so) from Tesla, who received a damaged reputation from it because the average viewer has NO context of how this "test" was conducted?

Do you know for a fact this branch he was using ever became available to the public? Or was it for internal use only, and he clearly violated his NDA and his duties as an employee by misrepresenting a product?

Funny enough, I didn't even ask you the question but here you are piping up with mainstream news article on the subject. News corps are now absolutely notorious for putting outright blatant lies in their content to sir up as much engagement as possible.

No serious person will refer to CNBC for an objective view into this matter.

To answer your question, no I do not believe the version he was using made it public and yes, he clearly violated his NDA. In fact, Elon tweeted months before the incident that leaks will no longer be tolerated.

 

[BeFamousVideo]

I've been using FSD for 3 days now taking me to and from work, the gym, and grocery. On the 1st day I agree it was very sharp turning to the left into a new lane making me insecure it will clip the front of a car waiting at the stop light. Turning left into parking lots where a median is present or high curbs. In all cases it does not make contact, and I've learned it is very precise in the maneuvers. It has also become confused traveling in a construction zone where a new interchange is being built and the road is coned off into different inappropriate marked lanes of traffic, or, completely removed of asphalt with slag rock filling the holes. It has stopped, slowed, and become confused requiring me to take over. All of these routes I've taken each day as my routine from home to work to gym to home. And today what I've noticed is the CyberDriver is learning. It isn't getting confused in the construction zone and it is becoming smoother with left turns and a more comfortable distance to the cars in other lanes it is turning by. While I could be optimistic or just becoming conditioned to the left turn improvement, there is no doubt it is no longer getting confused in the construction zone. It did not stop today, hesitate, or slow when going through that area. FSD is learning by use. That is how the feature and autonomy will improve. Use it, be ready to take over, provide the data to Tesla's supercomputer and AI. Then, one day it will become "Johnny Cab."

You wrote probably the most helpful and meaningful FSD experience I've read thus far.
xAI Teslas AI version has the ability to learn. I've used FSD once for only a few minutes leaving my neighborhood to run an errand. I took over after a few blocks because of an unusual situation that I wasn't going to wait to see if FSD was going to figure it out. Residential construction traffic, gardener trucks and other oddities not usually there.
When I used enhanced autopilot in my 2018 M3 it worked pretty well (only rated for hwy driving) it was close to perfect. Especially in stop and go traffic of Los Angeles.
Reading the areas you and others wrote is helpful to know what to watch for when using FSD. This is one of the real values of this forum. Now I know to beware of sharp left turns etc. Let's build on this for all. I'm very excited to help test and train FSD going forward.

 

[REM]

Most are on the FB FSD Beta tester group, almost all were on left turns. There's some on TMC, the one famous one that delayed V12 was removed from X by Elon probably has videos on Reddit, but they occur. Telsa reports them to the NHTSA. From January 2018 to August 2023 there were 956 accidents on cars with AP or FSD and 29 deaths. The report doesn't separate the mode, which IMO is bullshit, but they are reported by Tesla to the NHTSA, so I don't think the numbers are incorrect.

You can search and find them, but as I said vehicle to vehicle accidents are seemingly rare on V12, a lot of curbs and going the wrong way (Chuck showed this in the CT with 12.5.5 and dirty showed it going over a median).

It's the nature of having the public test something new. There's some bad builds like 12.4 and super bad builds like 10.3, but Tesla usually halts the rollout and makes changes.

FSD has a ton of easily searchable videos of running redlights. For a while with V11 the newer led lights would display as flashing red and the car would just go through them, but that appears to be resolved.

It's still a developing product. It's way better than when I first tested, but has a ways to go. As I've said like 10 times, it's still not programmed to detect or react to school zones, school busses, special no right on red rules, and has issues with minimum speed limit signs and complex scenarios like a stop sign near a red light, the vehicle prioritizes the stop sign over the light, even if it's for a fork and not the lane you are in.

It's getting there.

oh for sure, I completely understand the software development lifecycle and the several nuances and dynamics regarding FSD and how it will mature over the next few years.

Basically what I am looking for is a real, solid video example of a collision that is actually caused by FSD where the person behind the wheel didn't have enough time to overtake. So far the only examples I have seen are situations in which a human nor machine would be able to overcome the law of physics and a crash was inevitable anyway.

So far, I haven't seen such an example. Granted, I'm almost positive there are situations out there that absolutely do fit that criteria.

 

[Deleted member 17810]

Waymo also had drivers at first. Won't take them too long to take the training wheels off. In fact, it may be a certification requirement. Same for the Boring Tunnels in Vegas.

I'm super interested to see how much they lean back into lidar. They recently purchased a good chunk of sensors.

If it was to implement or to reverse engineer, either way if they tack them on to the robo taxi, they're pretzel rationalizing will be great to see.

 

[My Hooptie]

I understand it's the best thing out there for the moment in terms of being close to autonomous but it certainly isn't good enough yet to drive itself without interventions in urban areas. If Robotaxis is the same as FSD 12.5.5, it would be highly risky I think. I love Tesla so I really want it to be good but it cuts corners too sharply and also misses things that it cannot classify such as plastic roadsigns that stick up in the middle of the street (it does see cones and other objects though). As an example of a dangerous scenario, mine made a turn and instead of going on the road, it went onto a local light rail track and followed that path instead which could be disastrous if one happened to have been oncoming.

I have been using the FSD on my Cyberbeast. I have been able to go on long drives with highway and city driving with zero interventions. However, when I took it on some of the back roads here in TN that have no markings, it still had a couple issues.

1. On a road where the arterial turns on a corner and there is a side road going straight, it went straight with oncoming traffic coming.

2. On very narrow almost one lane road that that has sharp curves, it drove like it was a one-way lane, not considering there could be a car coming around the corner.

I think FSD is 98% there and very worth the cost. I take people out on drives to show it off and it blows their minds.

 

[SCTesla]

oh for sure, I completely understand the software development lifecycle and the several nuances and dynamics regarding FSD and how it will mature over the next few years.

Basically what I am looking for is a real, solid video example of a collision that is actually caused by FSD where the person behind the wheel didn't have enough time to overtake. So far the only examples I have seen are situations in which a human nor machine would be able to overcome the law of physics and a crash was inevitable anyway.

So far, I haven't seen such an example. Granted, I'm almost positive there are situations out there that absolutely do fit that criteria.

The criticism of this one was that the driver was allowing FSD to drive in the fog and he didn't take over soon enough.

Since I cannot share FB videos, this is a snip of one.

Another one.

This is v12. Not a wreck, but likely would have been. V12.3 went over the line on a turn and until the driver jerked it over, was looking at a head on collision. You can't let FSD fail in this situation...sure there was a chance it recovered, but FSD was out of it's lane.

There's more on TMC and Reddit, but I think that's sufficient. It happens, but you are supposed to pay attention.

 

[REM]

I'm super interested to see how much they lean back into lidar. They recently purchased a good chunk of sensors.

If it was to implement or to reverse engineer, either way if they tack them on to the robo taxi, they're pretzel rationalizing will be great to see.

LiDAR is simply too noisy to be useful. Outside of a revolutionary breakthrough, vision will be the absolute winner.

The thing most people don't understand about autonomy and Ai is that it has to match up completely with the human experience. You hit absolute brick walls when trying to develop a system that uses sensors that are completely foreign to how humans interact with the world.

 

[CyberGus]

I really want to use FSD so as to contribute to the training set, but I just can't trust this release.

If it's barrelling towards a red light, like it did yesterday, I'm being attentive and can stop it. But on things like cornering, the vehicle is frequently inches from the curb/median at the apex, and it's difficult to discern the clearance before it's too late to take over.

The last straw for me was when it took a U-turn lane, and was hugging the inside so tightly I thought it would scrape the guardrail and cause significant damage.

It seems like the vision AI is rendering the environment with high accuracy, but is less certain about where the vehicle resides within that space. I'll limit my use to the highway until the next update.

 

[Deleted member 17810]

The last straw for me was when it took a U-turn lane, and was hugging the inside so tightly I thought it would scrape the guardrail and cause significant damage.

Thank you for thinking about the guardrail.

 

[Spacenoddle]

LiDAR is simply too noisy to be useful. Outside of a revolutionary breakthrough, vision will be the absolute winner.

The thing most people don't understand about autonomy and Ai is that it has to match up completely with the human experience. You hit absolute brick walls when trying to develop a system that uses sensors that are completely foreign to how humans interact wit the world.

Human basically is using 2 rotatable ( neck) cameras to drive anyway.

 

[REM]

The criticism of this one was that the driver was allowing FSD to drive in the fog and he didn't take over soon enough.

Yeah, the 1st one was 100% driver error and outside of the capability and stated scope of FSD.

2nd one, can't comment on because I don't have anything but a still image.

3rd one, blatantly driver error. He engaged FSD during a road transition AND with the box truck in the blind spot.

4th one also can't directly comment on because I haven't seen the footage, BUT I will say that I have also experienced FSD crossing the center line during a turn in a risky manner; especially in the mountains at a high rate of speed. The key being that I recognizied I was pushing it past a higher confidence level than it should have gone and I dialed it back.

Most people can't be trusted to understand the limits of the FSD program in its current state. I'm actually still shocked that Tesla opened the program up to wide availability because of that.

Let me know if you find links to those other videos. cheers!

 

[CyberByWire]

Each time I intervene, I'm prompted to record a short voice note and explain why I disengaged. I try to make the note each time, with the expectation that the video/CT data and my commentary makes it back to the engineering team and helps contribute to future improved releases. Are you other FSD "supervisors" doing this as well? Is this normal practice for all models, or just CT?

 

[SCTesla]

Yeah, the 1st one was 100% driver error and outside of the capability and stated scope of FSD.

2nd one, can't comment on because I don't have anything but a still image.

3rd one, blatantly driver error. He engaged FSD during a road transition AND with the box truck in the blind spot.

4th one also can't directly comment on because I haven't seen the footage, BUT I will say that I have also experienced FSD crossing the center line during a turn in a risky manner; especially in the mountains at a high rate of speed. The key being that I recognizied I was pushing it past a higher confidence level than it should have gone and I dialed it back.

Most people can't be trusted to understand the limits of the FSD program in its current state. I'm actually still shocked that Tesla opened the program up to wide availability because of that.

Let me know if you find links to those other videos. cheers!

Fwiw. I think all issues are the drivers fault. People just assume FSD works in all conditions and won't make mistakes. It's not finished.

Testers who pay attention don't have accidents or even near accidents. My truck would have driven in a ditch, but I was paying attention and saw the angle of approach and took over.

It will get there some day.

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