FSD is not good enough for me. Sorry

[Crissa]

incidentd of FSD getting in accidents.

Seems like the goalposts have been moved from...

but there were a ton

Because nowhere did I say there had been 'none'.

C'mon. When you were pushed, you pointed at report Autopilot collisions which included data from people who were overriding or even not using autopilot of FSD at the time!

It should not be called Full Self Driving. Not even if you append “(Supervised)” to it. No Tesla is capable of full self driving yet no matter what marketing name is used. Maybe that will change on 10/10 but not yet.

What is it, then? Because you're not buying 'Level 2 autonomy on city streets' you're buying 'a system which has the ultimate goal of level 5 autonomy as the features are developed'.

This is not “Full” Self Driving, as promised. Tesla shouldn’t call these current iterations FSD; they should be called Autopilot (Supervised).

It's not Autopilot. Autopilot is always supervised, because there's no version of autopilot in the world which weren't supervised.

There’s no “darth” side. Just objective reality. Like when I posted here months ago that you wouldn’t see Autosteer on CT and no FSD(S) on CT until October.

Your opinions, even if they turn out true, are not objective facts. They're opinions.

And Tesla just advertised autosteer (as that's part of Autopilot) in the non-Foundation Cybertruck.

-Crissa

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[SCTesla]

Seems like the goalposts have been moved from...

Because nowhere did I say there had been 'none'.

C'mon. When you were pushed, you pointed at report Autopilot collisions which included data from people who were overriding or even not using autopilot of FSD at the time!


What is it, then? Because you're not buying 'Level 2 autonomy on city streets' you're buying 'a system which has the ultimate goal of level 5 autonomy as the features are developed'.


It's not Autopilot. Autopilot is always supervised, because there's no version of autopilot in the world which weren't supervised.


Your opinions, even if they turn out true, are not objective facts. They're opinions.

And Tesla just advertised autosteer (as that's part of Autopilot) in the non-Foundation Cybertruck.

-Crissa

You said half.

That's still a ton. Don't act like these incidents have been a rarity. They are getting more rare, but occur.

 

[Crissa]

You said half.

That's still a ton. Don't act like these incidents have been a rarity. They are getting more rare, but occur.

If they're not a rarity, why is it you had to point to Autopilot collisions?

-Crissa

 

[GBanter32]

Waymo is Way less than FSD. Tesla's magnitudes of Data advantage will continually prove this.

The End.

- ÆCIII

If waymo is PSD Tesla is NSD, no self driving. Tesla's magnitudes of data advantage gave yet to prove anything other than provide hopes and dreams.

 

[GBanter32]

The unlimited areas in which FSD is functional and viable that Waymo cannot operate - are already continually proving it.

Waymo is a geo-limited map dependent party trick for sheep to fall for.

- ÆCII

Partially functional and partially viable I think is what you meant.

 

[Darthamerica]

Seems like the goalposts have been moved from...

Because nowhere did I say there had been 'none'.

C'mon. When you were pushed, you pointed at report Autopilot collisions which included data from people who were overriding or even not using autopilot of FSD at the time!


What is it, then? Because you're not buying 'Level 2 autonomy on city streets' you're buying 'a system which has the ultimate goal of level 5 autonomy as the features are developed'.


It's not Autopilot. Autopilot is always supervised, because there's no version of autopilot in the world which weren't supervised.


Your opinions, even if they turn out true, are not objective facts. They're opinions.

And Tesla just advertised autosteer (as that's part of Autopilot) in the non-Foundation Cybertruck.

-Crissa

I know what Autopilot is, I also OWN a Model S from 2015 that has the feature. And like Autopilot, there’s currently no version of Tesla’s FSD available to customers that isn’t supervised. When, if, Tesla releases an actual FSD, then that’s when it should be called that. And I see the marketing names are continuing to confuse you. Autosteer in the recently updated CT page is just Tesla breaking out FSD features. It’s not the same thing owners impatient for FSD were begging for 5 months ago from AP cars.

 

[ÆCIII]

Partially functional and partially viable I think is what you meant.

FSD took me on a 60 mile round trip today without me having to intervene or grab the wheel once, among aggressive highway and city drivers, in an area my car had never been before. Yes it's viable, and this is happening constantly with thousands of Tesla owners all over America right now.

I was really impressed today. Of course there are routes and situations where drivers will still have to intervene, but they are getting fewer and fewer. Tesla's already superior data advantage will continue to grow by magnitudes even faster now.

But hey, I respect you don't believe in FSD - so you should really never ever use it. Just don't ever use it because there are millions of people willing to experience it without your opinion.

- ÆCIII

 

[GBanter32]

FSD took me on a 60 mile round trip today without me having to intervene or grab the wheel once, among aggressive highway and city drivers, in an area my car had never been before. Yes it's viable, and this is happening constantly with thousands of Tesla owners all over America right now.

I was really impressed today. Of course there are routes and situations where drivers will still have to intervene, but they are getting fewer and fewer. Tesla's already superior data advantage will continue to grow by magnitudes even faster now.

But hey, I respect you don't believe in FSD - so you should really never ever use it. Just don't ever use it because there are millions of people willing to experience it without your opinion.

- ÆCIII

And none of what you just said disproves what I said. It's partially usable and partially viable.

Not sure all the extra you said was necessary. At no point did I say I don't believe in FSD. Seems the only opinion you accept / like are positive ones. Seems like some people have an issue with criticism and get emotional if something negative is said...

 

[T35L4]

It's fascinating how your post (and others) trigger a visceral response. I couldn't agree with you more.

First of all, it's completely unnecessary to attack someone for their opinion. It wasn't negatively targeting anyone in these forums. Agree or disagree. Share counter opinions. Sharing opinions , experiences, and ideas is why we're here. But share in a way that doesn't shut people down.

Secondly, I think the way you worded the heading is spot on. "Not Good Enough" to me means it's not the standard I would have expected. Is it perfect? Of course not. No one expects that. But this is not the first iteration of Tesla's FSD. For the CT, yes. But the issues being reported don't appear to be issues that would be caused by the differences in the CT relative to the other Tesla models using FSD. I'm having a blast trying it out and it's doing well in plenty of scenarios. But where it's not performing well, I would have expected it to perform better. Not good enough for now. But I'm looking forward to the improvements.

Generally, it's cool to disagree on topics like these as they are just opinions. But I'm also very surprised at the level of abrasiveness, rancor, and such, and sometimes, we aren't even disagreeing lol. It just seems people are upset by even a critique. Perhaps FSD is just a sensitive topic for some or maybe my tone was also too strong. I should be less emphatic perhaps. When I first started on this forum, I felt this was one of pretty cordial, helpful people and able to express just about anything. But I see there are a few in here that tend to be more hostile. That's not the fault of the forum so much. I guess that's just people.

 

[L3it3R]

I did a 308 mile trip yesterday. I intervened with FSD three times.
Once for a hidden curb that has always been an issue with FSD since V10.8
Once because another driver swerved into our lane and I just instinctively reacted
And the last because it gets uncomfortably close to people at red lights and we had to sit through one a couple times waiting for traffic so I stopped it shorter than it had done the first time.

That’s it. 308 miles round trip. One of my best FSD drives in three years of using it. 12.5.5 isn’t perfect, but it is probably the best effort overall to date.

Extremely excited for V13 and beyond.

 

[evnow]

A minor quibble here. Human drivers constantly correct errors during driving. FSD takes on this role, reducing human interventions to once every 20 miles. However, FSD needs to correct its errors smoothly without human intervention.

Thats not the meaning of "errors".

Basically human city driving "minor accident" rate is 1 in 10,000 miles (think curb rash). That is what I'm calling as an error here.

But FSD makes errors that humans need to intervene to correct. So, we can say, if the human had not intervened, FSD could have had a minor "accident".

ps : This is where the 1 in 10k miles comes from.

(1) Autonomous Car Progress | Page 318 | Tesla Motors Club

 

[Darthamerica]

Just left the parking lot at SoFi Stadium. FSD(S) is definitely not good enough yet for any autonomous use case. Numerous disengagements navigating through the parking lot and on the surface streets just outside the venue. The SW just couldn’t handle the unpredictable driving from people jockeying to get out of the lot. This wouldn’t work for A.S.S., Robotaxi or FSD(Un-S). However once I got about a block away FSD(S) worked smoothly except for the extremely tight left and right turns. I have learned to trust the tight turns and didn’t take control though.

Overall I’d give it a “B-“ in the current version.

 

[Cincycyber]

I understand it's the best thing out there for the moment in terms of being close to autonomous but it certainly isn't good enough yet to drive itself without interventions in urban areas. If Robotaxis is the same as FSD 12.5.5, it would be highly risky I think. I love Tesla so I really want it to be good but it cuts corners too sharply and also misses things that it cannot classify such as plastic roadsigns that stick up in the middle of the street (it does see cones and other objects though). As an example of a dangerous scenario, mine made a turn and instead of going on the road, it went onto a local light rail track and followed that path instead which could be disastrous if one happened to have been oncoming.

Agreed. Mine never sees huge chunks of shredded semi truck runner and today on a bridge under construction tries to drive me into oncoming traffic on the wrong side af the double yellow lines. Ahem. Not good.

 

[Harley]

There is nothing in this world is "enough". this CT FSD build definitely needs more improvement but i drove 40 min through neighborhood road, a very busy state highway, then on the highway pass downtown Seattle in rush hour, on to west Seattle bridge, then in tourist pack local drive to a city park, WITHOUT any intervene. I was really impressed, so was my wife at the back seat. Yes， it turned sharp for both left and right, particularly left, and it changed lanes from left most to right most for exit in less than 0.5 mile from the exit in a heavy traffic.

Used FSD going home in Mukilteo the last few days and for the most part I love it. One very nervous moment, though.

As it prepared to make a left turn at a stoplight that was red, the left turn signal activated as we approached the intersection, but for some reason we stayed in the middle (go straight) lane even though there was a clearly defined left-turn lane. The car just ahead of us also had its left turn signal on but it was in the middle lane (could my CT have been fooled by the turn signal on the car ahead of us?) When the light turned green, the car ahead went straight but the Cybertruck began to make the left turn from the center lane. At that instant, a car approaching rapidly from behind darted into the left turn lane. Maybe the Cybertruck would have adjusted on its own to avoid collision, but I took over from there and jerked the steering wheel to stay in the center lane and drive straight through the intersection.

Once I got back on course, I re-activated FSD and it was perfect, including another stoplight left-turn lane.

Lesson learned here: stay alert!

 

[Spacenoddle]

Used FSD going home in Mukilteo the last few days and for the most part I love it. One very nervous moment, though.

As it prepared to make a left turn at a stoplight that was red, the left turn signal activated as we approached the intersection, but for some reason we stayed in the middle (go straight) lane even though there was a clearly defined left-turn lane. The car just ahead of us also had its left turn signal on but it was in the middle lane (could my CT have been fooled by the turn signal on the car ahead of us?) When the light turned green, the car ahead went straight but the Cybertruck began to make the left turn from the center lane. At that instant, a car approaching rapidly from behind darted into the left turn lane. Maybe the Cybertruck would have adjusted on its own to avoid collision, but I took over from there and jerked the steering wheel to stay in the center lane and drive straight through the intersection.

Once I got back on course, I re-activated FSD and it was perfect, including another stoplight left-turn lane.

Lesson learned here: stay alert!

drove back and forth twice between Eastlake to kenmore today, since it was ultra impressive driving in dark around 6 am in not easy Eastlake neighborhood, both side street parking and one lane in the middle with the roundabout, it hit the low divider slightly during the left turn onto Bothell way even no car around, and another sharp turn back to bothell way , it actually saw it was too close and stopped in the intersection, made a adjustment, then continued. I bet it surprised the car behind me during the turn. Both case I did not intervene and let it carry on.

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