Unsupervised FSD in 2025 for Texas and California says Musk at Robotaxi / Cybercab reveal

[CarMan ElecTruck]

I would expect these are some well crafted prototypes.. but possibly production styling intent…

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[CarMan ElecTruck]

I’m surprised not many noticed or mentioned the Laser Lights on the unit Elon arrived in..

seemingly projected from below the Front LightBar.. wee need picture of that one..

 

[Deleted member 17810]

That's not how that works.

Even if the lidar is on a chip - even if the entire software stack was on a chip...the lidar signal still needs:

1. to be generated,
2. travel to the target,
3. travel back,
4. be interpolated into a position,
5. be meshed into the visual data
6. be decided if it's something the car needs to respond to
7. then the car has to actually respond to it.

The number of steps here are irreducible, even if you can shrink some in time, but not all of them.

-Crissa

1-3 happens faster in lidar than it does in a camera based system.

Then it provides a metric, that the rest of the system can act on. milliseconds worth of time

4-7 is what fsd is doing on their NN chipset.

Again, Teslas position is that they can do the latter steps faster than lidar or sonar or physical detection systems and they haven't proven it.

 

[Crissa]

1-3 happens faster in lidar than it does in a camera based system.

Then it provides a metric, that the rest of the system can act on. milliseconds worth of time

4-7 is what fsd is doing on their NN chipset.

Again, Teslas position is that they can do the latter steps faster than lidar or sonar or physical detection systems and they haven't proven it.

1-3 don't happen in a camera system. I don't know why you think it does. A camera can see a light source in any frequency, even directly produced, whereas a lidar system can only see its own band and only pays attention to its own signal.

4-5 may or may not; Tesla thinks their solution is faster. But this has to happen - lidar will give you random positions of blades of grass and puffs of smoke.

6-7 is probably 99% of the time involved currently.

So no, lidar doesn't make it 'respond faster'.

-Crissa

 

[Tedacules]

Not related but why does robo taxi only have 2 doors yet is still fairly large. Are there seats in the back? I don't see the advantage with the fancy doors.

No seats in back doors are operated by the car so they get closed properly.

 

[Deleted member 17810]

1-3 don't happen in a camera system. I don't know why you think it does. A camera can see a light source in any frequency, even directly produced, whereas a lidar system can only see its own band and only pays attention to its own signal.

4-5 may or may not; Tesla thinks their solution is faster. But this has to happen - lidar will give you random positions of blades of grass and puffs of smoke.

6-7 is probably 99% of the time involved currently.

So no, lidar doesn't make it 'respond faster'.

-Crissa

First of all,

WHAT?

Seeing something and responding doesn't happen in a camera system?

A lidar system is faster than a camera system.

Tesla keeps claiming their system is better and haven't proven it.

Lidar literally responds faster to give you an answer to hot far something is.

Tesla doesn't like that it's too fuzzy to blend into their visual system. This is what they said.

 

[Deleted member 17810]

Not related but why does robo taxi only have 2 doors yet is still fairly large. Are there seats in the back? I don't see the advantage with the fancy doors.

They're more than likely reusing a model y.

 

[Crissa]

First of all,

WHAT?

Seeing something and responding doesn't happen in a camera system?

A lidar system is faster than a camera system.

Tesla keeps claiming their system is better and haven't proven it.

Lidar literally responds faster to give you an answer to hot far something is.

Tesla doesn't like that it's too fuzzy to blend into their visual system. This is what they said.

I apparently need to draw a diagram.

Roughly:

[3] light reflected from targets -> [4] camera chip -> [5] pre processing (occupancy neural network) -> [6] post processing (object recognition) -> [7] decision tree (driving AI)

[1] Lidar chip emits signal -> [2] signal travels to target -> [3] signal reflects from target -> [4] lidar sensor receives signal -> [5] pre processing (creating distance and position data) -> [6] post processing (object recognition, to exclude bogus returns) -> [7] decision tree (driving AI)

The relative reaction time of these things mostly determined by that last step, the driving AI. Lidar is not inherently faster or cheaper.

One advantage a camera system has is that it potentially can recognize mirrored surfaces while lidar will have more trouble with that.

-Crissa

 

[Stinky10r]

1-3 don't happen in a camera system. I don't know why you think it does. A camera can see a light source in any frequency, even directly produced, whereas a lidar system can only see its own band and only pays attention to its own signal.

4-5 may or may not; Tesla thinks their solution is faster. But this has to happen - lidar will give you random positions of blades of grass and puffs of smoke.

6-7 is probably 99% of the time involved currently.

So no, lidar doesn't make it 'respond faster'.

-Crissa

Why don't you have a job as an engineer or something?

 

[Crissa]

Why don't you have a job as an engineer or something?

Various reasons. I had been fired from more jobs before I met my spouse than she's had then or since.

Mostly, I never found a place where I fit in. ?‍

I did like engineering school. But it was very expensive.

-Crissa

 

[Stinky10r]

Various reasons. I had been fired from more jobs before I met my spouse than she's had then or since.

Mostly, I never found a place where I fit in. ?‍

I did like engineering school. But it was very expensive.

-Crissa

I understand.

 

[Tinker71]

Different models carry different amounts of people in differing levels of comfort.

I've seen people poo-poo-ing the two seat cab, except the vast majority of rides are two or less - and they already make other models of autonomous compatible cars that seat 5-7.

-Crissa

It's smaller than the 3/Y, but the back is storage, a lot of it.

The doors are because Tesla needs to be able to open/close doors remotely.

Still not sold on the door design. Looks problematic. The swing radius isn't much better than a standard car door and standard car doors can be automated. They already power cinch close, spring open without handles.

I think this is a little case of futurism for futurism sake.

 

[Gaximus]

I’d be willing to bet, in the future, insurance companies will ask how much FSD is used. Just like now when they ask how many miles a year you drive, they will ask how many of those will be unsupervised, and you’ll get a discount accordingly. But until FSD proves its self, insurance companies will charge more, or try to find a way to make themselves not responsible when FSD is enabled.

 

[Woodrick]

I was very dissapointed in the event. Really surprised and bummed they didn't create a Steering Wheel version of the Cybercab, and an actual Robovan for consumers. Model X is too small for family use.

Sucks they are just going full autonomous, with a two seater or a 20 seater. Way too ahead of the times and I feel disconnected to what people want. Consumer vehicles are still what people want and pay for.

And Elon is saying that it's time to change the mindset of people.
They've pretty well done so with the EV.

This was an early prototype announcement; the car is still a few years away. There definitely can be some options by the time it is released.

Family size seems like a personal issue to me. It always surprises me why people with an 8 person family seem upset that there are no vehicles available for them.

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