NHTSA & DOT Want Your Thoughts On Using Cameras Instead Of Traditional Mirrors

[TruckElectric]

NHTSA & DOT Want Your Thoughts On Using Cameras Instead Of Traditional Mirrors

By
Johnna Crider
Published
12 hours ago

• https://cleantechnica.com/2022/03/1...sing-cameras-instead-of-traditional-mirrors/#

The National Transportation Highway Safety Administration (NHTSA) and the Department of Transportation want to know if you support using cameras instead of traditional mirrors. The two organizations opened a Federal Register Notice with a comment period that ends on April 13, 2022.

According to the NHTSA, it is thinking about researching the involvement of the collection of information from the public as part of a multi-year effort to learn about how drivers use passive camera-based rear visibility systems that are intended to work in the same manner as the mirrors on the outside of a vehicle.

“Performing detection of objects within the system’s field of view and providing visual or other alerts to the driver is not a technology function being examined in this research.”

As part of the research, drivers would test vehicles on a test track and on public roads both in stationary situations and while driving. Members of the general public will be recruited for the study.

The agency shared the overall goal:

“The goal is to characterize drivers’ eye glance behavior and other driving behaviors while operating a vehicle equipped with traditional outside mirrors versus while operating a vehicle equipped with a camera-based visibility system in place of vehicle outside mirrors. This research will support NHTSA decisions relating to safe implementation of electronic visibility technologies that may be considered for use as alternatives to meet Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard (FMVSS) No. 111 mirror requirements.”

The NHTSA will screen its participants and pose questions to assess whether or not they are suitable for participation in the study. It will also evaluate how comfortable one is with using a camera instead of mirrors.
If you are interested in participating, click here to learn more.


https://cleantechnica.com/2022/03/1...using-cameras-instead-of-traditional-mirrors/

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[TruckElectric]

I thought we did this once already........oh well, guess they want moar!

 

[ldjessee]

Things I want to mention, but wanted to see if anyone had something already written up and better than what I have here:

• Mirrors can be blinded or otherwise made useless due to lighting condition, which will still be true with cameras and monitors
• Camera lens would be more easily cleaned or heated than mirrors, to remove frost, rain, etc.
• Mirrors offer a limited and poorly placed view point, leading to expansive blind spots, but cameras could give a wide view and be positioned to give a better view, reducing or eliminating traditional blind spots
• Backup cameras and monitor has become a sought after feature/option by many automobile consumers.
• Protruding mirrors often are the only part of a vehicle damaged in some collisions, especially on narrow streets or where on street parking is common and dark colored mirror housings are missed by drivers and resulting in a collision of just the mirror and housing. If the mirror had not been sticking out, no collision would have happened.
• Aerodynamic improvements would help all vehicles efficiency, internal combustion, hybrid electric, and battery electric vehicles.

Any others that I missed?

 

[firsttruck]

Things I want to mention, but wanted to see if anyone had something already written up and better than what I have here:

• Mirrors can be blinded or otherwise made useless due to lighting condition, which will still be true with cameras and monitors
• Camera lens would be more easily cleaned or heated than mirrors, to remove frost, rain, etc.
• Mirrors offer a limited and poorly placed view point, leading to expansive blind spots, but cameras could give a wide view and be positioned to give a better view, reducing or eliminating traditional blind spots
• Backup cameras and monitor has become a sought after feature/option by many automobile consumers.
• Protruding mirrors often are the only part of a vehicle damaged in some collisions, especially on narrow streets or where on street parking is common and dark colored mirror housings are missed by drivers and resulting in a collision of just the mirror and housing. If the mirror had not been sticking out, no collision would have happened.
• Aerodynamic improvements would help all vehicles efficiency, internal combustion, hybrid electric, and battery electric vehicles.

Any others that I missed?

There are many cases where pedestrians are struck only by the mirror of passing vehicle and suffer severe injury or even death. Most of these cases involve pickup trucks, vans, commercial vehicles because they tend to have much larger mirrors which also protude much further out from vehicle.

Getting rid of exterior mirrors and using cameras is important for increased safety with Cybertruck.

 

[John K]

Make proximity sensors standard. Make the sensors required for all vehicles with blind spots.

 

[Crissa]

Cameras can adapt to lighting situations, even in some cases eliminating glare (in more expensive ones), and working in low light situations in which mirrors cannot.

-Crissa

PS, I'm pretty sure we did do this before.

 

[Dusty]

There are many cases where pedestrians are struck only by the mirror of passing vehicle a...

Actually saw that happen in midtown Manhattan years ago. A lady standing at an intersection waiting to cross. She was about 3 feet off of the curb and her purse strap snagged the mirror of a turning car. Her arm was tangled in the strap when her body turned. The strap broke after she got dragged 20 feet. She was SUPER lucky, her legs were raspberry'd pretty good and she smacked her face on the street, but she didn't get run-over.

 

[Dirt Worker]

In junior high school, the local bully was standing at the bus stop heckling smaller kids when he was standing close to the curb. He turned around just in time to have half his nose ripped off by a pickup mirror. I love big mirrors. Later, we became friends but always gave him crap for being Italian. Thanks for bringing me back to an instant karma moment.

 

[jerhenderson]

Things I want to mention, but wanted to see if anyone had something already written up and better than what I have here:

• Mirrors can be blinded or otherwise made useless due to lighting condition, which will still be true with cameras and monitors
• Camera lens would be more easily cleaned or heated than mirrors, to remove frost, rain, etc.
• Mirrors offer a limited and poorly placed view point, leading to expansive blind spots, but cameras could give a wide view and be positioned to give a better view, reducing or eliminating traditional blind spots
• Backup cameras and monitor has become a sought after feature/option by many automobile consumers.
• Protruding mirrors often are the only part of a vehicle damaged in some collisions, especially on narrow streets or where on street parking is common and dark colored mirror housings are missed by drivers and resulting in a collision of just the mirror and housing. If the mirror had not been sticking out, no collision would have happened.
• Aerodynamic improvements would help all vehicles efficiency, internal combustion, hybrid electric, and battery electric vehicles.

Any others that I missed?

Things I want to mention, but wanted to see if anyone had something already written up and better than what I have here:

• Mirrors can be blinded or otherwise made useless due to lighting condition, which will still be true with cameras and monitors
• Camera lens would be more easily cleaned or heated than mirrors, to remove frost, rain, etc.
• Mirrors offer a limited and poorly placed view point, leading to expansive blind spots, but cameras could give a wide view and be positioned to give a better view, reducing or eliminating traditional blind spots
• Backup cameras and monitor has become a sought after feature/option by many automobile consumers.
• Protruding mirrors often are the only part of a vehicle damaged in some collisions, especially on narrow streets or where on street parking is common and dark colored mirror housings are missed by drivers and resulting in a collision of just the mirror and housing. If the mirror had not been sticking out, no collision would have happened.
• Aerodynamic improvements would help all vehicles efficiency, internal combustion, hybrid electric, and battery electric vehicles.

Any others that I missed?

more cowbell

 

[TruckElectric]

Things I want to mention, but wanted to see if anyone had something already written up and better than what I have here:

• Mirrors can be blinded or otherwise made useless due to lighting condition, which will still be true with cameras and monitors
• Camera lens would be more easily cleaned or heated than mirrors, to remove frost, rain, etc.
• Mirrors offer a limited and poorly placed view point, leading to expansive blind spots, but cameras could give a wide view and be positioned to give a better view, reducing or eliminating traditional blind spots
• Backup cameras and monitor has become a sought after feature/option by many automobile consumers.
• Protruding mirrors often are the only part of a vehicle damaged in some collisions, especially on narrow streets or where on street parking is common and dark colored mirror housings are missed by drivers and resulting in a collision of just the mirror and housing. If the mirror had not been sticking out, no collision would have happened.
• Aerodynamic improvements would help all vehicles efficiency, internal combustion, hybrid electric, and battery electric vehicles.

Any others that I missed?

Send it!

 

[ÆCIII]

Yes, we did this before. I wrote a long dissertation about pros and cons mentioning two eyes perceiving depth perception through mirrors and not cameras, yet cameras can be mounted to see around things mirrors that mirrors cannot. Both have their advantages and disadvantages. I won't put everyone through that again.

But, if NHTSA and DOT were as competent as they should be, they would not even be having to ask us (the public). They should be smart enough to work with Tesla or any OEM to develop and execute comprehensive tests. But they are corrupt and biased too, as evidenced by the appointment of Missy Cummings who had a conflict of interest owning shares of the LIDAR company.

The problem I have with NHTSA just sitting on their hands and doing 'surveys', is that they are avoiding responsibility for any decisions or outcomes on the matter, and then they can always 'point to' the (supposed) inputs they received from the public. If they aren't willing to develop and execute comprehensive tests in collaboration with Tesla or OEMs, and then own those results and their decisions based on such tests - what good are they other than a political puppet entity??

 

[Crissa]

Looking closer, this is more a focus group for testing than another survey.

But it sure sounds like they haven't done anything in the last three years.

-Crissa

 

[Usachris]

And can we finally get rid of that “Objects in mirror may be closer than they appear” warning?

 

[Jhodgesatmb]

I thought we did this once already........oh well, guess they want moar!

More than once. It is important to understand that this request is not about our opinions/views on CMS but on the testing program the NHTSA intends to initiate. If you read the documentation that is what they are asking for. I volunteered to be a test subject a few months ago but today I saw in their documentation that they want drivers that are no older than 65 and I am. My one comment to them would be why not but since I have already commented on this program I think I won't.

It would help, but I do not expect it to happen, if the government would be clearer in their requests for comment what they are really asking for...

 

[TyPope]

Here's the site for those who missed it. Keep in mind, they are NOT asking if they should allow mirrors. I wrote in to ask about the non-functional link. The link hadn't been activated at that time but now works. Anyway, the nice lady told me they just wanted people's opinions on whether or not a study should be conducted.

They get a lot of "cameras good" type of comments which are not helpful. They need you to say something along the lines of "I support a study on the efficacy of using cameras in lieu of mirrors for rearward vision while driving."

Here's the link:
https://www.regulations.gov/document/NHTSA-2019-0082-1917

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