ldjessee

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I believe with the 8 ports on the coolant bottle & pump unit (Octovalve). I also believe that each port has a valve, thus they can quickly change what is source and what is destination. The Octovalve can control flow from and to, but all sources come to and then leave from the Octovalve. I have seen nothing that would let me believe they could pull from one source and put that to one destination while also pulling from a different source and sending it to a different destination.
I believe the Octovalve could pull from both sources and send to both destinations at the same time.
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ajdelange

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Clearly you have no idea what the Octovalve does or does not do nor does anyone else beyond that it is a clever
"switch" designed using PCB layout techniques to switch heat sources between heat sinks (keeping in mind that in a BEV some things are sources in some modes and sinks in others). The most flexible design would be blocking crossbar but clearly this isn't that.
 

ldjessee

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I have worked on hydraulic and HVAC systems, but have only designed the most simpilistic circuits (I have worked with people who designed circuits and watched them work).
I have watched the Sandy Munro videos. I do not know for sure exactly what it does, I have not seen the diagrams, the fluid/circuit path models, or any other detailed diagram, but I can reason a guess and why they have done things they have done.
Having a single heat pump that has a single source for heat energy in the vehicle is much more efficient than the separate systems found in most vehicles. Moving around heat so that you pull it from where you do not want it and put it where you do want it (say from the electronics and motor to the radiator or the battery pack).
But, you are correct, I do not absolutely know for sure. Just my semi-educated guess.
Until that information is released, my concept of it will be in a super position, neither right nor wrong.
 

ajdelange

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Moving around heat so that you pull it from where you do not want it and put it where you do want it (say from the electronics and motor to the radiator or the battery pack).
That's clearly what it is designed to do. The thing is that the sources/sinks are multiple and things that are sometimes sources are sometimes sinks so the switching can be quite compicated. Tesla filed a patent application for a switching system that would meet these requirements in a motor vehicle and with a little looking you can probably find a reference to it and from that get an idea as to the kind of flexibility such a system might have in a Tesla design.
 

ldjessee

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Clearly you have no idea what the Octovalve does or does not do nor does anyone else...
That's clearly what it is designed to do. The thing is that the sources/sinks are multiple and things that are sometimes sources are sometimes sinks so the switching can be quite compicated. Tesla filed a patent application for a switching system that would meet these requirements in a motor vehicle and with a little looking you can probably find a reference to it and from that get an idea as to the kind of flexibility such a system might have in a Tesla design.
Maybe I am misunderstanding your point?
First you said no one can know, then you agreed with me that I was correct and that it could be confirmed by looking at the patent filing? (which I had not thought about, but knowing how convoluted some patent filings are, not sure I have the ability to make heads or tails of it all).

I am just confused as to what you thought I was wrong about?
 

ajdelange

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I think you are wrong in thinking that I am saying you are wrong. I said you don't know what they might or might not do and I suppose extending from that I'd say you are wrong to make assumptions about what they might or might not be doing unless common sense or a physical law was being violated.

A patent attorney once pointed out to me is that the role of a Jedi patent lawyer (as he put it) is to claim as much as possible while disclosing as little as possible which is why I advise reading the patent with a view to understanding the sort of things that might be done rather than interpreting it as what will be done.
 

Dids

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I believe with the 8 ports on the coolant bottle & pump unit (Octovalve). I also believe that each port has a valve, thus they can quickly change what is source and what is destination. The Octovalve can control flow from and to, but all sources come to and then leave from the Octovalve. I have seen nothing that would let me believe they could pull from one source and put that to one destination while also pulling from a different source and sending it to a different destination.
I believe the Octovalve could pull from both sources and send to both destinations at the same time.
So we are imagining a hot side and a cold side on the octovalve.
1. Cabin
2. Battery
3. Motor / invertors
4....
5.
6.
7.
8.
Maybe it takes 2 valves per zone. Maybe zone 4 is the heat pump.

So the octo valve can send cold to the motors if they are hot and hot to the cabin if it's cold. Then if cold side is too hot it sends it to heat pump to chill . This isn't unreasonable since optimum operation temp for the zones would be around 70 deg.

Then we have 3 scenarios... Some hot, some cold, all hot, all cold. In mixed scenario heat pump isn't needed temperature is just moved via octovalve. All hot the heat pump moves it out and if cabin needs more cooling than optimal battery temp then cold side is chilled colder and hot and cold mix for the battery... All cold. Heat pump pulls atmosphere ambient heat.

Can you think of more zones?
 

ldjessee

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I was not even close in my guess that it was 8 in, 8 out... Technically the octovalve has just 8, but the two manifolds, the nylon and the aluminum ones, have a bunch of valves and such in them. The tear down video Sandy Munro just posted looks like 20+ ports.

 

ajdelange

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If you listen carefully at 1:22 he says "21 ports are glued into this thing" in talking about the "coolant manifold".

Well I know more than I did before but I still don't know squat! Pretty neat stuff though.
 

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ajdelange

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The BMW i3 has used a heat pump since at least 2014.


BMW i3 in Nordic winter
February 23, 2014 BMW i3BMWi3, heat pump, heater, värme, värmepump, vinter, winter



A heat pump reduces energy about 30% and since the display says that the interior heating consumes about 12 km during a charge cycle the heat pump should be able to increase the range 5-10 km.



Source: BMW i3 Owner
I have no idea what that is supposed to mean. At reasonably cold temperatures (down to 10° F or so) a heat pump has a COP of about 3 so that if you need 1 kW of heat you will have to supply 333 W. If you are doing 60 mph in a CT using 400 Wh/mi you will be burning 24 kWh for traction. The heat pump will require .33 kW. Of course an electric heater would only require 1.

The extra 0.7 kWh is enough to go about 2 miles more so the heat pump is picking up about 2 miles extra for you every hour you drive. Not much but every little bit does help.
 
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