Don't worry about lower ranges your first few charging cycles! Estimated range will increase

[SSonnentag]

literally everything you just said was in my post, including that I use battery percentage. It doesn't change the fact that they will not update dashboard range to reflect any version of reality, despite the navigation having excellent data for charging stop estimates. But even if I wanted to specifically go out of my way, into a menu, and enable some weirdly named setting that would tell me truth instead of best case, I can't. For me, I can deal with it now that I know. But I didn't inherently know that EVs were so insanely more sensitive to temp, speed, wind, and elevation than an ICE vehicle. I had to learn that as I went. So yes, I will assert that it would be really nice if I didn't have to set the battery to percentage, and instead could be given a real world range display without covering up my map with the energy display.

The range is available on the screen based upon the last 5, 15 (I think) or 30 miles, your choice. The battery icon range is always rated range. Go into the detailed battery usage data and charts if you want other estimates.

Tesla isn't hiding this information, just presenting the driver with the most consistent value up front and center.

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[agordon117]

The range is available on the screen based upon the last 5, 15 (I think) or 30 miles, your choice. The battery icon range is always rated range. Go into the detailed battery usage data and charts if you want other estimates.

Tesla isn't hiding this information, just presenting the driver with the most consistent value up front and center.

I don't know how I could have been more clear than "without covering up my map with the energy display"

Yes, tesla masks this. No, mental gymnastics to call the EPA range a "consistent value" do not change that. Right in that place on my dashboard, I should be able to see real range, not EPA range. Even if it's not a default setting, for whatever reason. Let me pick what I want to see there. It's not like we have a little energy widget that we can drag around to wherever is the least annoying spot.

 

[HaulingAss]

literally everything you just said was in my post, including that I use battery percentage. It doesn't change the fact that they will not update dashboard range to reflect any version of reality, despite the navigation having excellent data for charging stop estimates. But even if I wanted to specifically go out of my way, into a menu, and enable some weirdly named setting that would tell me truth instead of best case, I can't. For me, I can deal with it now that I know. But I didn't inherently know that EVs were so insanely more sensitive to temp, speed, wind, and elevation than an ICE vehicle. I had to learn that as I went. So yes, I will assert that it would be really nice if I didn't have to set the battery to percentage, and instead could be given a real world range display without covering up my map with the energy display.

I hear what you're saying but I can see very good reasons why it's better this way, why Tesla chose to not include the efficiency screens in the main battery charge level display.

It comes down to consistency. If the range remaining display varied with recent driving styles or weather conditions it cannot be applied to a new route, not yet entered into the navigation. As it stands, the range remaining display is not dependent upon any variables except the state of charge of the battery. That's a valuable tool I use all the time and its meaning never varies.

If I want more detailed estimations for a particular route, I enter that route and it automatically provides new estimates taking into account geography, winds, temperature, etc. I still take it with a grain of salt because it has no idea how fast or how mellow I will actually drive or how high I might crank the heat.

If I want even more detailed information than that provides while en-route, I can always go to the very detailed efficiency screens and select the amount of previous driving history I want included in the estimations. I can follow the graphs to see how I was doing, relative to the estimated efficiencies and a host of other tools. It will even tell me the amount of range I lost due to low tire pressures, heater useage, higher speed driving, etc. I don't need to use those screens much due to the accuracy of the other estimations, without needing to dive into ALL the details.

Tesla has thus created a staged approach to estimating range, depending upon what you need. Personally, I think what you are suggesting would confuse people and cause potential strandings. That said, you do still need to know what each range estimation takes into consideration and adjust for any variables it cannot possibly know.

My F-150 has a useless range remaining estimation, because it is not consistent, Simply driving up a steep hill for a few miles can cause it to display wildly innaccurate information that I have no reasonable way to mentally correct for (except to know the number it is showing me is meaningless in the context of the rest of my trip).

 

[HaulingAss]

Right in that place on my dashboard, I should be able to see real range, not EPA range. Even if it's not a default setting, for whatever reason.

Here's the problem:

There is no such thing as "real" range remaining. Because it depends upon things in the future that are variables. I can see you would prefer to have the estimated range, that includes all known factors, displayed front and center. That is a personal preference you think you have, not everyone shares that. I'm sure that seems most sensible to you, that doesn't make it so. It's not for me and I think Tesla was thinking correctly the way they have done it. That doesn't mean everyone will prefer it, but I do think it serves most people in the best way most of the time.

No matter which number Tesla choses to put front and center comes with the need to understand what that number means. I can see Tesla allowing the user to customer which number is displayed. I can also see how this would cause a certain number of strandings when people didn't realize how their display was configured.

I like the consistent, layered approach that Tesla chose. It gives me the most certainty and the easiest for me to use and understand. Generally, I don't need anything more than the EPA rated range and a rough mental adjustment for any factors I can see will require that number to be adjusted up or down.

 

[agordon117]

Here's the problem:

There is no such thing as "real" range remaining. Because it depends upon things in the future that are variables. I can see you would prefer to have the estimated range, that includes all known factors, displayed front and center. That is a personal preference you think you have, not everyone shares that. I'm sure that seems most sensible to you, that doesn't make it so. It's not for me and I think Tesla was thinking correctly the way they have done it. That doesn't mean everyone will prefer it, but I do think it serves most people in the best way most of the time.

No matter which number Tesla choses to put front and center comes with the need to understand what that number means. I can see Tesla allowing the user to customer which number is displayed. I can also see how this would cause a certain number of strandings when people didn't realize how their display was configured.

I like the consistent, layered approach that Tesla chose. It gives me the most certainty and the easiest for me to use and understand. Generally, I don't need anything more than the EPA rated range and a rough mental adjustment for any factors I can see will require that number to be adjusted up or down.

I know it varies, but they know reasonably well what the final answer is. That's why you don't hear a bunch of stories about people stranded between superchargers that the nav said they could make it to.

The way they have done it though, they may as well not even show the EPA range, just show percentage. Because EPA range of any number between 0 and 318, run through a multiplier, is just not as easy as 1.5-2.5 miles per battery % (and no, that's not "always" the case, but that's how I do it). So it doesn't save anyone from doing any math to display the EPA range.

And, again, I'm in favor of more options, not less. They can default to the EPA, sure. Just also give us that option.

 

[QuantMech]

literally everything you just said was in my post, including that I use battery percentage. It doesn't change the fact that they will not update dashboard range to reflect any version of reality, despite the navigation having excellent data for charging stop estimates. But even if I wanted to specifically go out of my way, into a menu, and enable some weirdly named setting that would tell me truth instead of best case, I can't. For me, I can deal with it now that I know. But I didn't inherently know that EVs were so insanely more sensitive to temp, speed, wind, and elevation than an ICE vehicle. I had to learn that as I went. So yes, I will assert that it would be really nice if I didn't have to set the battery to percentage, and instead could be given a real world range display without covering up my map with the energy display.

That is incredible that you actually get the stated miles posted in an ICE vehicle. I never have, it is always on the high side especially when environmental factors come into play. Don’t take this the wrong way, i am not beating up on either methodology of vehicle build, i am really beating up on both. Neither share the actual mileage that i get out of either one. I will say that the ICE is closer in non ideal scenarios than EV. Both types of vehicles have work to do that can easily be accomplished with some software updates (ICE vehicles MAY need more than just software), which seems to be much easier to do in the Tesla company than any other.

 

[agordon117]

That is incredible that you actually get the stated miles posted in an ICE vehicle. I never have, it is always on the high side especially when environmental factors come into play. Don’t take this the wrong way, i am not beating up on either methodology of vehicle build, i am really beating up on both. Neither share the actual mileage that i get out of either one. I will say that the ICE is closer in non ideal scenarios than EV. Both types of vehicles have work to do that can easily be accomplished with some software updates (ICE vehicles MAY need more than just software), which seems to be much easier to do in the Tesla company than any other.

Never claimed I get "stated miles posted". But my dashboard doesn't show me that number either. My dashboard shows me an estimate based on my average fuel economy and fuel left in the tank. And it's never off by more than a few miles.

If you actually care about the EPA estimate, here's my anecdote. The best number I can turn up for my jeep is 19 MPG combined (21 rubicon, 4dr, manual). I get 16 MPG. So a full (21.5 gal) tank at EPA is 408.5 miles. I get 344. On my worst day, at 10F , at 79mph, with a headwind, I get that 344 miles. Maybe in the summer I get a few more, but not much.

My worst day in my model Y, 10F, 79mph, with a headwind (a calculator I found suggests it was 13mph to get this efficiency)... My math showed 141 miles to empty, vs the 326 EPA. I spent 78% of my battery to travel 110 miles. I had to dig up my notes to be 100% about it. And like, is that the normal set of conditions I drive in? no. probably happens a couple of days a year.


EDIT: Also, I think earlier I came up with the answer that would make everyone happy. Tesla should give us widgets. And allow us to put a little energy widget somewhere on the screen that we decide is the most out of the way. Then people don't have to do math and keep track of stuff to figure out what kind of efficiency you're getting that day, and we don't have to cover the map to see that info.

 

[SSonnentag]

This is why, IMO, it only makes sense to dispense with the range number and only show the battery percentage. No matter which range number you choose to display, it will be wrong.

 

[agordon117]

This is why, IMO, it only makes sense to dispense with the range number and only show the battery percentage. No matter which range number you choose to display, it will be wrong.

I use percentage because it's easier to keep track of, but the computer knows the real range to a precise enough degree that we make it between superchargers in the worst possible conditions. Let us display that range number.

 

[SSonnentag]

I use percentage because it's easier to keep track of, but the computer knows the real range to a precise enough degree that we make it between superchargers in the worst possible conditions. Let us display that range number.

What do you suppose the range the "computer knows" is based upon?

 

[Gigahorse]

This is why, IMO, it only makes sense to dispense with the range number and only show the battery percentage. No matter which range number you choose to display, it will be wrong.

Yea think using miles is pretty useless, especially when no one is getting 318 from 100% to zero. So much better using % so you don't get fooled and stranded, using the % lets you calculate the range in your head based off how you are driving and lets you self calibrate if you are going to get 200 or 250 on the highway depending how you drive.

 

[HaulingAss]

The way they have done it though, they may as well not even show the EPA range, just show percentage. Because EPA range of any number between 0 and 318, run through a multiplier, is just not as easy as 1.5-2.5 miles per battery % (and no, that's not "always" the case, but that's how I do it). So it doesn't save anyone from doing any math to display the EPA range.

And, again, I'm in favor of more options, not less. They can default to the EPA, sure. Just also give us that option.

You have the option to only show percentage battery remaining, just touch the remaining miles figure and it will switch to percent battery remaining. There was even a way to set the default units (miles or percentage) in the menu, the last time I looked.

 

[agordon117]

You have the option to only show percentage battery remaining, just touch the remaining miles figure and it will switch to percent battery remaining. There was even a way to set the default units (miles or percentage) in the menu, the last time I looked.

I know, that's how I do it now.

 

[QuantMech]

Never claimed I get "stated miles posted". But my dashboard doesn't show me that number either. My dashboard shows me an estimate based on my average fuel economy and fuel left in the tank. And it's never off by more than a few miles.

If you actually care about the EPA estimate, here's my anecdote. The best number I can turn up for my jeep is 19 MPG combined (21 rubicon, 4dr, manual). I get 16 MPG. So a full (21.5 gal) tank at EPA is 408.5 miles. I get 344. On my worst day, at 10F , at 79mph, with a headwind, I get that 344 miles. Maybe in the summer I get a few more, but not much.

My worst day in my model Y, 10F, 79mph, with a headwind (a calculator I found suggests it was 13mph to get this efficiency)... My math showed 141 miles to empty, vs the 326 EPA. I spent 78% of my battery to travel 110 miles. I had to dig up my notes to be 100% about it. And like, is that the normal set of conditions I drive in? no. probably happens a couple of days a year.


EDIT: Also, I think earlier I came up with the answer that would make everyone happy. Tesla should give us widgets. And allow us to put a little energy widget somewhere on the screen that we decide is the most out of the way. Then people don't have to do math and keep track of stuff to figure out what kind of efficiency you're getting that day, and we don't have to cover the map to see that info.

I think data driven options would be wonderful. It would fulfill those who want to see the governments estimated mileage if they so choose (driver can do their own math based on that number to get closer to reality) or other more realistic current data driven estimates for that vehicle and that driver. This applies to not only EV but also ICE but i am sure there is some bureaucrat that will disagree, that it will cause mass confusion and it will rain pigs.

 

[CyberTW]

Never claimed I get "stated miles posted". But my dashboard doesn't show me that number either. My dashboard shows me an estimate based on my average fuel economy and fuel left in the tank. And it's never off by more than a few miles.

If you actually care about the EPA estimate, here's my anecdote. The best number I can turn up for my jeep is 19 MPG combined (21 rubicon, 4dr, manual). I get 16 MPG. So a full (21.5 gal) tank at EPA is 408.5 miles. I get 344. On my worst day, at 10F , at 79mph, with a headwind, I get that 344 miles. Maybe in the summer I get a few more, but not much.

My worst day in my model Y, 10F, 79mph, with a headwind (a calculator I found suggests it was 13mph to get this efficiency)... My math showed 141 miles to empty, vs the 326 EPA. I spent 78% of my battery to travel 110 miles. I had to dig up my notes to be 100% about it. And like, is that the normal set of conditions I drive in? no. probably happens a couple of days a year.


EDIT: Also, I think earlier I came up with the answer that would make everyone happy. Tesla should give us widgets. And allow us to put a little energy widget somewhere on the screen that we decide is the most out of the way. Then people don't have to do math and keep track of stuff to figure out what kind of efficiency you're getting that day, and we don't have to cover the map to see that info.

“In my jeep, if it tells me I will get 320 miles, I sure as hell get 320 miles no matter how cold it is, or how fast (within reason) I drive. Highway + 9 mph I'll always see that 320 miles.” You posted this earlier.. I guess I am confused ..
not trying to pile on, but didn’t you just say you never claimed you “stated miles posted”?

I get what you are saying, but I use percentage and it works great. I have ability to see where I am getting dinged on range on my 3-5 hr trips I take a couple times a quarter. But I have found that Tesla is very accurate with my end destination.

I think I may not be understanding what your argument is or what the real point you are getting at. For that I apologize and mean no condescension or zingers at you

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