How FSD behaves w/ Max Speed -- explained by Tesla software engineer

[MoabChris]

????

Liability falls on FSD?

In what world does that happen.

I have put 2,000 miles on FSD in my CT. Not liking the ghosts setting the speed. Often, way too often it is either 10 or more MPH below the speed limit which gets some other drivers raging if it is sunny straight, wide road OR it is up to 12-15 OVER the posted speed limit when it has actually got the right number shown as the speed limit.

Liability is still 100% the driver's ... That is what Supervised means. We need this part of it to either be better or able to be set.

Sure, if it is dark, rainy, curvy, narrow, unmarked or lots of debris or big trucks far below the posted speed is fine.

On I-40 in NC it pulled out onto the Insterstate and showed 45 and went 45 until the first speed limit sign a mile away. Not pulling away from some stop signs after it is well clear and yes, not reading the correct traffic light too.

On balance, I was a beta tester way way back and honestly, we all need to be patient with the progress. This is like approaching the speed of light. As we get closer and closer the demands increase exponentially. So the training demands are going up exponentially. Elon said the other day that one mistake every 10,000 miles is about where FSD is now. So you have to train for 10,000 to get a mistake and train another 10,000 to verify that it is fixed.

It has NEVER been better but still not ready and these last 1% or less will take a Billion miles of data to get it closer. Dr. Know It All says the final version will not be done until 6 Billion miles are trained. We are at least another year from that number.

But, to your comment. I am not sure if the Liability will ever be transferred from the driver. Ever.

The definition of Unsupervised Full Self Driving.... (eg waymo), the "passenger" doesn't have liability, in theory. That law... is probably still in its infancy.

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[smg]

Wait, so you think a vehicle made in Texas should follow your other state rules and inconvenience those of us in Texas? I kind of think the car's AI could recognize this and adjust accordingly but until it has this ability, actual speed limits and actual driving speeds have to be the inputs for limits in the software.

And that's ignoring the fact that exceeding the speed limit by a reasonable amount is very common while traveling with the flow of traffic on highway.

I guess some people are already totally satisfied with the unrealized potential of what we have now to the point of defending it. I am not in that category.

 

[RayzorBEV]

Driving my Tesla Cyberbeast on FSD has been a transformative experience. Now, my Cyberbeast is twice as much fun to be with than before the arrival of FSD. Day time or night, be it on open interstate, narrow back roads or construction zone, FSD has been fantastic.

 

[jimbobb23]

I can have absolutely flawless drives aside from the speed. There are a few “25 means 25” roads in this area and FSD loves to scream down them at about 38-42 Mph.

Until they can fix that, I will be forced to disengage, slow down to the correct speed, and reengage each time

Just dont give it control over speed. I dont disengage I just mess with the scroll wheel. On speed FSD is terrible.

 

[Crissa]

Do you have a Tesla?

Do you have any items to correct in my points, or are you just trolling?

If there's something incorrect, I want to know. Tesla changes all the time, so it's fascinating to watch.

Was the car crash safer?

Yes.

If you wouldn't dodge a vulnerable road user, you are not a good driver.

-Crissa

 

[jimbobb23]

FSD is bad at speed. Bad at knowing the speed because it relies on vision first instead of just having correct maps. It merges onto freeways all the time at 45 mph waiting for a sign when endangering me with such slow driving. Apple maps already knows all the speeds....just use that and then when signs disagree have some other algorithm to determine who to prioritize.

I think the fundamental approach to speed is wrong. The majority of my drives are flawless except speed. I never let FSD do the speed anymore except for one drive with each new version. I think they just have not figured this out while everything else has improved.

 

[Crissa]

FSD is bad at speed. Bad at knowing the speed because it relies on vision first instead of just having correct maps.

Vision can read signs. Assuming there weren't patent trolls stopping basic image-to-text in cars.

There are no correct maps. Such maps do not exist. Can not exist: The speed varies whenever someone puts up a sign, or the weather changes, or whatever - not when someone updates an authoritative map.

-Crissa

 

[jimbobb23]

Vision can read signs. Assuming there weren't patent trolls stopping basic image-to-text in cars.

There are no correct maps. Such maps do not exist. Can not exist: The speed varies whenever someone puts up a sign, or the weather changes, or whatever - not when someone updates an authoritative map.

-Crissa

I agree with you. I mean it doesnt know the posted speed for the road soon enough or accurate because it is reading signs. Of course the car must adjust to correct conditions and temporary signs and thats what vision theoretically. But when I am on a freeway I know is 75 mph and FSD thinks its 60 it annoys me and surrounding drivers and having that information from maps might allow it to get to the posted speed sooner when there are no mitigating factors.

 

[RayzorBEV]

FSD is bad at speed. Bad at knowing the speed because it relies on vision first instead of just having correct maps. It merges onto freeways all the time at 45 mph waiting for a sign when endangering me with such slow driving. Apple maps already knows all the speeds....just use that and then when signs disagree have some other algorithm to determine who to prioritize.

I think the fundamental approach to speed is wrong. The majority of my drives are flawless except speed. I never let FSD do the speed anymore except for one drive with each new version. I think they just have not figured this out while everything else has improved.

If you find yourself going too slow for the situation, just depress the go pedal and FSD will go with you new speed without disengaging. Sometimes, FSD would hesitate in turning or going from a stop, again, just give the go pedal a push and FSD takes over. FSD is learning rapidly as we all rake in the miles; sometimes, scary fast...

 

[Sjohnson20]

I started with autopilot when it first came out and it was not very good. I also started FSD at the beginning and it was horrible and unusable. What we have now is 100 times better than back then. It's not even close. I am amazed how good it is. Yes it still needs improvements. But at this point it feels like mostly small tweaks and personal preferences. It does the job 95% of the time and the other 5% I have to intervene for various issues.

Today I was driving in Atlanta and it was really good. But, there was one of those wide loads on the highway taking two lanes up and it didn't want to pass. So I hit the blinker and it passed.

I also had to hit the brakes on a back road where there was stopped traffic and it was coming in very hot. Way too fast to be approaching a back up. Maybe it would have stopped but I played it safe.

 

[Crissa]

If you find yourself going too slow for the situation, just depress the go pedal and FSD will go with you new speed without disengaging. Sometimes, FSD would hesitate in turning or going from a stop, again, just give the go pedal a push and FSD takes over. FSD is learning rapidly as we all rake in the miles; sometimes, scary fast...

I always repeat, though, to make sure people who listen to your advice remember that using the pedal means you're telling it, that it's safe. You need to be extra careful because it overrides the automated braking.

Also... your extra speed may make it miscalculate a turn, so be extra ready to keep it from turning too far.

-Crissa

 

[HaulingAss]

Supposedly next year, when the robotaxi has no pedals and no steering wheel. Surely the liability will not transfer to an owner or passenger, when neither have any control. This I'm sure will need to be resolved in the courts, but if I own 35 robotaxis, and they make errors, from a business perspective it's not a liability I would assume, would hold the OEM responsible because they control it, updates, decisions, etc.

I think the way this will play out is that FSD won't be unsupervised until it's proven safer than humans by at least 2X, maybe 5x. At that point insurance companies will WANT to take responsibility because it will be safer than if you drive manually. And Tesla is in the insurance business already, in states that don't have too burdomsome of insurance regulations or an agonizingly slow approval process for new insurance providers.

 

[REM]

I took out a Model-X for a test drive on FSD. Exiting from a freeway, at about 50mph, where there was some construction with temporary barriers, the car tried to swerve to the left; into the concrete barriers. I had to make a quick correction to avoid collision. When I reported this to the sales people, the response that I got was, "The FSD is always learning." Needless to say, when I next took a drive in a cybertruck, I had the FSD turned off!

No offense meant, but the FSD program isn't aimed at your demographic. It's extremely popular with people who enjoy using cutting edge tech and video gaming. It takes a lot of knowledge and skillets to understand what FSD can and cannot do. For a lot of people, FSD is an outright hobby lol!

 

[REM]

If you find yourself going too slow for the situation, just depress the go pedal and FSD will go with you new speed without disengaging. Sometimes, FSD would hesitate in turning or going from a stop, again, just give the go pedal a push and FSD takes over. FSD is learning rapidly as we all rake in the miles; sometimes, scary fast...

It's funny to me that most people don't understand how to properly interact with FSDs decision making. It definitely takes input cues!

 

[Gaximus]

As a software developer I can tell you that users will never use it the way it was intended to be used. Users will want to go faster, and to do that, they have to press the “gas” pedal, which puts it in a ”will not brake” state. Which is more dangerous, and it will also limit the adoption of self driving software. Of all things that can be automated, driving is one of the most opinionated things out there, and if it can’t drive “my way” I’ll take over. Think of all the back/side seat drivers you’ve ever ridden with.

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