cybertrucktruckguy

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What is the possibility that you can achieve enough anchoring potential by using a slide in plate that is secured by multiple slats of the 'C Channel' bed? Assuming, as an exoskekeloton the bed itself is part of the frame, shouldn't that be a possibility?
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ajdelange

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Why do we want a fifth wheel hookup? That is a question of great moment. Two moments, actually. One in the vertical and one in the horizontal plane. The tongue weight develops a torque around the center of mass in the vertical plane which reduces the weight on the front wheels and thus makes steering, by the front wheels, less effective. The farther forward the tongue weight is applied the smaller that torque. In the horizontal plane we are concerned with sway. A gust of wind from the left side of a trailer applies a substantial force to it and this, transmitted through the tow connection, produces a large torque around the center of mass of the vehicle in the counter clockwise direction. The vehicle front is rotated into the wind. The only mechanism the driver has is to turn the steering wheel to the right but steering is less effective because weight has been taken off the front wheels. All in all, not a good situation. Moving the connection point between trailer and vehicle forward means less torque in the horizontal plane too. Hence the fifth whee/gooseneck trailer hitch.

That's the old days. Enter the CT with two motors in the back. A large trailer pulled by the conventional ball rig applies a larger horizontal torque than a fifth wheel but we now have means to neutralize that torque: by applying a torque of equal magnitude in the opposite direction via sending more torque to one rear wheel than the other i.e. torque vectoring. A more rearward connection also takes more weight off the front wheels than a fifth wheel but that doesn't matter because the correcting torque is now supplied by the rear wheels.
 
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Kim Best

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Why to we want a fifth wheel hookup? That is a question of great moment. Two moments, actually. One in the vertical and one in the horizontal plane. The tongue weight develops a torque around the center of mass in the vertical plane which reduces the weight on the front wheels and thus makes steering, by the front wheels, less effective. The farther forward the tongue weight is applied the smaller that torque. In the horizontal plane we are concerned with sway. A gust of wind from the left side of a trailer applies a substantial force to it and this, transmitted through the tow connection, produces a large torque around the center of mass of the vehicle in the counter clockwise direction. The vehicle front is rotated into the wind. The only mechanism the driver has is to turn the steering wheel to the right but steering is less effective because weight has been taken off the front wheels. All in all, not a good situation. Moving the connection point between trailer and vehicle forward means less torque in the horizontal plane too. Hence the fifth whee/gooseneck trailer hitch.

That's the old days. Enter the CT with two motors in the back. A large trailer pulled by the conventional ball rig applies a larger horizontal torque than a fifth wheel but we now have means to neutralize that toque: by applying a torque of equal magnitude in the opposite direction via sending more torque to one rear wheel than the other i.e. torque vectoring. A more rearward connection also takes more weight off the front wheels than a fifth wheel but that doesn't matter because the correcting torque is now supplied by the rear wheels.
What about towing a trailer (14000 lbs) in sand? I’d like to see the trailer (having its own solar system/batteries etc) be able to power assist/drive its own wheels similar to the old army trailers which had a drive shaft extending back from the vehicle transfer case to the trailer diff. Be embarrassing for a CT to be unable to tow something off road 😳
 

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Additionally, where is the additional computer that is going to show all this advanced towing statistics and information. And how is the information going to get transmitted to the main screen in the cab? Not sure how that cabling would get into the watertight cab. There is some serious software and compute necessary to figure out everything that are saying will be displayed. I posted this in the towing forum weeks ago. I personally don't think the CT is far enough along for this product to be this thought out...
 

Dids

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Additionally, where is the additional computer that is going to show all this advanced towing statistics and information. And how is the information going to get transmitted to the main screen in the cab? Not sure how that cabling would get into the watertight cab. There is some serious software and compute necessary to figure out everything that are saying will be displayed. I posted this in the towing forum weeks ago. I personally don't think the CT is far enough along for this product to be this thought out...
More serious computing than self driving? The amount of computing power needed to calculate suggested advanced towing statistics is probably less then 1 cycle of the onboard processor which probably happens faster than 5 Ghz.... I'm not even sure how many zeros are in that number and I'm too lazy to look at google. Also why do you think there would be huge wires or whatever? You have heard of USB?
 
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ajdelange

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The additional load on the computing resources are insignificant compared to other loads. Note that what the OP is proposing is managed by a cell phone app. Where this concept gets exciting to me is that the rear wheel torque vectoring of the CT may well eliminate the need for fifth wheel, gooseneck or pivot point projection hitches as the torque applied by a swaying trailer is easily taken out by applying a torque in the opposite direction at the wheels if the vehicle is capable of doing that and the TriMotor CT will certainly be able to do that and the other models can do it too if not as elegantly. This will impose additional demands on the tracking stabilization software/firmware but they shouldn't be significant. The additional sensors will be a couple of strain gauges in the hitch but as Musk is already talking about extra towing software capabilities they are, presumably, already part of the design. These sensors will, as do all the others back there (camera, sonic...), will simply plug into whatever bus (ethernet, CAN...) Tesla already intends to have to service that part of the vehicle.
 

VolklKatana

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More serious computing than self driving? The amount of computing power needed to calculate suggested advanced towing statistics is probably less then 1 cycle of the onboard processor which probably happens faster than 5 Ghz.... I'm not even sure how many zeros are in that number and I'm too lazy to look at google. Also why do you think there would be huge wires or whatever? You have heard of USB?
I don't mean this negatively, but you missed my point. I was trying to get at the fact that there is no way that Tesla allows a third party to make custom software and have all that accessible on the screen. Additionally, there isn't a mechanism that I am aware of that would collect that info. Tesla isn't collecting it and I don't understand how this product will not only collect it and then somehow force it's way onto the console. I work in IT, there are all sorts of interfaces, apps, and protocols that need to be in place to make this work.
 

VolklKatana

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The additional load on the computing resources are insignificant compared to other loads. Note that what the OP is proposing is managed by a cell phone app. Where this concept gets exciting to me is that the rear wheel torque vectoring of the CT may well eliminate the need for fifth wheel, gooseneck or pivot point projection hitches as the torque applied by a swaying trailer is easily taken out by applying a torque in the opposite direction at the wheels if the vehicle is capable of doing that and the TriMotor CT will certainly be able to do that and the other models can do it too if not as elegantly. This will impose additional demands on the tracking stabilization software/firmware but they shouldn't be significant. The additional sensors will be a couple of strain gauges in the hitch but as Musk is already talking about extra towing software capabilities they are, presumably, already part of the design. These sensors will, as do all the others back there (camera, sonic...), will simply plug into whatever bus (ethernet, CAN...) Tesla already intends to have to service that part of the vehicle.
Isn't there a big difference though between the statistics those sensors are picking up because they are built in and additional non related inputs?
 

Dids

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I don't mean this negatively, but you missed my point. I was trying to get at the fact that there is no way that Tesla allows a third party to make custom software and have all that accessible on the screen. Additionally, there isn't a mechanism that I am aware of that would collect that info. Tesla isn't collecting it and I don't understand how this product will not only collect it and then somehow force it's way onto the console. I work in IT, there are all sorts of interfaces, apps, and protocols that need to be in place to make this work.
Ahh yes I did misread what you wrote.
 

ajdelange

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As you yourself have pointed out there will be no non Tesla sensors involved or if there are they will be tightly controlled via ICS/ICD approved by Tesla. x, y, z strain gauges in the hitch and accelerometers in the truck are enough to allow the truck to estimate the weight of the trailer and its tongue weight. The towing screen might ask for manual input of trailer gross weight or even. if they really wanted to be nice, trailer make and model and then look up the pertinent parameters for that trailer. You can do a lot with just this sort of data. It remains to be seen what they actually ultimately offer.
 
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Cyber Hitch

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What about towing a trailer (14000 lbs) in sand? I’d like to see the trailer (having its own solar system/batteries etc) be able to power assist/drive its own wheels similar to the old army trailers which had a drive shaft extending back from the vehicle transfer case to the trailer diff. Be embarrassing for a CT to be unable to tow something off road 😳
I have also thought about this, If the trailer also had a battery pack, It would compensate for the extra trailer weight. These are questions that Tesla and the trailer mfg are going to have to figure out. The Cyber Hitch is more than capable of off road conditions. Currently I don't feel that most trailers are "4x4" rated.
 
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cyberhitchfeatureimagebumper.jpg


PART 2 Cyber Hitch Bumper Pull

Now, Get the same benefits as the 5th Wheel Cyber Hitch on your bumper!!!
Benifits:
Know that your hitch is locked and secured.
No Safety Chains, As per FHWA no safety chains are required for a 5th wheel device.
 
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