Less control on FSD v14

[JCERRN]

I generally agree with your idea of how it should work, but the unfortunate reality is that going slower than the posted speed limit dramatically increases collisions due to other drivers being stupid and trying to overtake (or worse, ride someone's bumper aggressively).

Tesla knows this due to the crazy amount of data they have crunched over the years. So far in my experience, sloth and chill are pretty close, with Sloth trying to stay exactly at the posted limit, and chill goosing it maybe an addition 3 mph when traffic and road conditions make sense.

What most people likely don't realize either is that your personal driving profile with Tesla keeps track of your driving habits, and v14 uses that to try and match your style.

i get the concept of why, But “sorry officer, my semi autonomous vehicle thinks it needs to speed to keep up with traffic” doesnt usually get you out of a speeding ticket.

people are gonna drive how they will drive, i personally prefer to stay the speed limit unless theres a safety reason not to. Too bad tesla doesnt let driver see their profile and how its rated.

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[georgek43]

Then don't use it.

I posted when I got V14 that there would be some here who would freak out, but since V10 of FSD they have continuously removed options and control and as Elon has said, they will continue to do so.

Seriously, your response to a customer who paid $8k for FSD is to “not use it”? I’d like your name and contact information please.

i get the concept of why, But “sorry officer, my semi autonomous vehicle thinks it needs to speed to keep up with traffic” doesnt usually get you out of a speeding ticket.

people are gonna drive how they will drive, i personally prefer to stay the speed limit unless theres a safety reason not to. Too bad tesla doesnt let driver see their profile and how its rated.

I’m going to post this and then let things rest for a while, hoping our developers come to their senses and restore the ability to manually set maximum speed. It was near perfect before FSD14, now FSD is unsafe, unusable and infuriating.

I just returned from a few short trips on a regular driving route. The car is consistently going 5-10mph over the speed limit in my 25mph community in sloth mode. It goes way too fast in parking lots. Before I could just roll down to set a maximum legal speed if the speed limit data was incorrect, or roll up to go the correct speed after the vehicle missed the change back to 25mph after a 15mph zone ended. It was easy, exact, safe, the trips were a joy and I was delighted to have my Tesla drive me around. Today it’s frustrating, takes far far more driver intervention, dozens of disengagements for even a short trip for safety and speed (and yes, I’m reporting them) and I’m finding driving in my CT to be quite unpleasant. Changing ‘speed profile’ from sloth on up is slow, inexact and has too much lag, with the vehicle ultimately going the wrong speed anyway requiring repeated disengagement of FSD. Go from sloth to chill when it wrongly thinks it’s in a 15mph zone, not much changes, go to standard and it jumps to 10mph over the 25mph speed limit.

There may be a boatload of improvements in FSD14, - I was excited to get the update- but if the FSD auto chosen speed is unsafe, and I cannot control it, I’m never going to be able to take advantage of the improvements, or even see them.

I’m hopeful that our developers will come to their senses and restore the ability to at least have the option to set max speed by the right roller in the next few days. It’s not asking for some major program change, just restore the working functionality we already had. It can even be the default to use the FSD14 profile way to select sloth to mad max by default, with an option to select manual setting of maximum speed, but this driver NEEDS the ability to set precise max speed. It was near perfect before- the new control system is not an improvement.

 

[JCERRN]

Seriously, your response to a customer who paid $8k for FSD is to “not use it”? I’d like your name and contact information please.

I’m going to post this and then let things rest for a while, hoping our developers come to their senses and restore the ability to manually set maximum speed. It was near perfect before FSD14, now FSD is unsafe, unusable and infuriating.

I just returned from a few short trips on a regular driving route. The car is consistently going 5-10mph over the speed limit in my 25mph community in sloth mode. It goes way too fast in parking lots. Before I could just roll down to set a maximum legal speed if the speed limit data was incorrect, or roll up to go the correct speed after the vehicle missed the change back to 25mph after a 15mph zone ended. It was easy, exact, safe, the trips were a joy and I was delighted to have my Tesla drive me around. Today it’s frustrating, takes far far more driver intervention, dozens of disengagements for even a short trip for safety and speed (and yes, I’m reporting them) and I’m finding driving in my CT to be quite unpleasant. Changing ‘speed profile’ from sloth on up is slow, inexact and has too much lag, with the vehicle ultimately going the wrong speed anyway requiring repeated disengagement of FSD. Go from sloth to chill when it wrongly thinks it’s in a 15mph zone, not much changes, go to standard and it jumps to 10mph over the 25mph speed limit.

There may be a boatload of improvements in FSD14, - I was excited to get the update- but if the FSD auto chosen speed is unsafe, and I cannot control it, I’m never going to be able to take advantage of the improvements, or even see them.

I’m hopeful that our developers will come to their senses and restore the ability to at least have the option to set max speed by the right roller in the next few days. It’s not asking for some major program change, just restore the working functionality we already had. It can even be the default to use the FSD14 profile way to select sloth to mad max by default, with an option to select manual setting of maximum speed, but this driver NEEDS the ability to set precise max speed. It was near perfect before- the new control system is not an improvement.

I had a feeling that of all the changes in v14 this would be the one people had the hardest time with. Bugs aside, this was intentional, and in my opinion, not a change that was 1. Ready to be made or 2. Well received by the people who still must supervise their vehicle driving, and have REAL consequences for allowing it to break the speed limit law. Now, if Tesla wanted to foot the bill for not only the speeding ticket but the insurance surcharge, then great. Their mindset is “well people will just disengage it when it gets out of line”. Sure, but when it is basically unusable for some, it becomes frustrating. They are relying on us users to give the corrections in real time, and “over time it will get better” as it learns what you tolerate and dont based on your driving. I guess either deal with it sucking at guessing the correct speed now and whip it into shape with disengagements and it should get better, or i i suppose dont and it will stay how it is, raw and untrained. I dont like the idea rhat they erred on “let it speed and the driver will cut it down when its too much” rather than “lets go slower and the driver will nudge it faster when they want to”. Any driver intervention is punishment for the neural net, but disengagements are among the most severe in terms of weight, so i suppose thats why. Theyd rather someone disengage than touch the accelerator.

 

[JCERRN]

That offset is for your speed limit warning. Lane assist is also in that menu and it's irrelevant when FSD is active. Tesla stated there is no user controls on Speed Limit outside of the profiles and that's pretty easily tested. The offset doesn't work on FSD.

Well.. theres the accelerator and brake pedals lol.

i get what they're doing. They are removing the user controls so that FSD can learn to do it on its own. Disengagements and driver intervention are punishment. Letting it go and no driver engagement until completion are the reward.

 

[JCERRN]

The issue is I just cannot use FSD in its current state. If Tesla would accept the speeding tickets and I could defer the points on my license to Tesla, I would use it every day. As is, I can't turn it on.

I guess you just have to accept that at this point, your only means of intervention are accelerator, brake, right scroll wheel button and profile changes. If it does something you dont want it to, you have to disengage, even if you reengage right after. I agree, it does not make for stress free or comfortable driving. We are the test pilots.

 

[SCTesla]

Seriously, your response to a customer who paid $8k for FSD is to “not use it”? I’d like your name and contact information please.

Absolutely. It was published well before V14 came to the CTs that you would lose control of speed and you opted into V14 by choosing advanced software. There's an entire thread here talking about it (me talking about it) to not update if that is important to you.

Tesla announced they were removing the option due to program difficultly in V14, but you have it. That's the only option at this point and I don't think we will see a return of the max speed...we could, but as Tesla said, it's too difficult with E2E. As someone else posted, it chokes the NNs and doesn't let them make the decisions it needs to with a manual rule on speed.

I agree it's a step back for most, but that's the model Tesla is going to, less user adjustments and control.

 

[JCERRN]

There may be a boatload of improvements in FSD14, - I was excited to get the update- but if the FSD auto chosen speed is unsafe, and I cannot control it, I’m never going to be able to take advantage of the improvements, or even see them.

Tbh, i think the saddest part is that it will be that much more challenging for users to demonstrate the real benefits of FSD to non tesla owners and people who just have “set it and forget it” mentality. People don't really like changing or adapting the way they drive, and SO many potential users will be lost by the “wait let me explain” part of this. “We are training it, don't you want to be a part of that?” Will be a hard no for a whole lot of average people.

 

[JCERRN]

Absolutely. It was published well before V14 came to the CTs that you would lose control of speed and you opted into V14 by choosing advanced software. There's an entire thread here talking about it (me talking about it) to not update if that is important to you.

Tesla announced they were removing the option due to program difficultly in V14, but you have it. That's the only option at this point and I don't think we will see a return of the max speed...we could, but as Tesla said, it's too difficult with E2E. As someone else posted, it chokes the NNs and doesn't let them make the decisions it needs to with a manual rule on speed.

I agree it's a step back for most, but that's the model Tesla is going to, less user adjustments and control.

Similar sentiment to removing US sensors. Benefit yet to be seen, Tesla Vision is a work in progress. “The best part is no part” mentality. Investments dont always net gains. In fact some are prone to go to 0 over time.

 

[SCTesla]

Similar sentiment to removing US sensors. Benefit yet to be seen, Tesla Vision is a work in progress. “The best part is no part” mentality. Investments dont always net gains. In fact some are prone to go to 0 over time.

They used cheap radar and didn't do it well.

I think the transition, outside of the original phantom braking was fine.

I disagree that the "benefit is yet to be seen", FSD is on another planet compared to the last version with radar (10.6, I believe) in all aspects. That sort of development would have required new, better tech and coding it in...further delaying getting to where we are today.

FSD has a 12% take rate (highest it has ever been) and it's because it's been developing or coming since 2016. It's still developing and likely why no one else is really even trying it with commercial vehicles. It's not smart cruise control, but I think the early deployment of RT incentivized Tesla to refocus their ambitions with FSD and that is to be unsupervised, even if that doesn't ever come to most of the consumer fleet. These changes are to get them to that finish line.

 

[JCERRN]

They used cheap radar and didn't do it well.

I think the transition, outside of the original phantom braking was fine.

I disagree that the "benefit is yet to be seen", FSD is on another planet compared to the last version with radar (10.6, I believe) in all aspects. That sort of development would have required new, better tech and coding it in...further delaying getting to where we are today.

FSD has a 12% take rate (highest it has ever been) and it's because it's been developing or coming since 2016. It's still developing and likely why no one else is really even trying it with commercial vehicles. It's not smart cruise control, but I think the early deployment of RT incentivized Tesla to refocus their ambitions with FSD and that is to be unsupervised, even if that doesn't ever come to most of the consumer fleet. These changes are to get them to that finish line.

My statement on benefit meant that my perception is that having US sensors for close proximity driving (tight parking spots, getting close to curbs) was a benefit, not a detractor, and that tesla vision still is not nearly as good as having those sensors, especially for blind spot parts of the vehicles. I didnt see a benefit to removing them at the time besides cost savings, and honestly i still dont. Call it overkill, or redundancy but idk if youve ever tried to back up next to a curb in the dark in the CT, There are almost no side lighting… vision goes bright red when im approximately 10-12 inches from the curb. Sensors would tell me exactly how close i am.

 

[SCTesla]

My statement on benefit meant that my perception is that having US sensors for close proximity driving (tight parking spots, getting close to curbs) was a benefit, not a detractor, and that tesla vision still is not nearly as good as having those sensors, especially for blind spot parts of the vehicles. I didnt see a benefit to removing them at the time besides cost savings, and honestly i still dont. Call it overkill, or redundancy but idk if youve ever tried to back up next to a curb in the dark in the CT, There are almost no side lighting… vision goes bright red when im approximately 10-12 inches from the curb. Sensors would tell me exactly how close i am.

Sorry, I thought you were talking about radar.

The USS were removed during a shortage of them and instead of delaying, they just moved on.

I do agree that vision still isn't as tight as the USS, but we did get the Tesla Vision overview, which I don't think we would have ever seen if USS were the primary function.

Tesla still uses USS on the Model X falcon doors so they clearly trust the sensors still.

But no, I do agree.

 

[AlmostHuman]

Okay finally got home to test version 14. Absolutely the best version so far on the Cybertruck. It gets up to speed quickly and keeps the speed. Like others have said, Mad Max is wild. I was doing 14 over the speed limit on the freeway. In very limited testing it really feels like something useable on the freeway now. We have a ~6,500 mile road trip coming up, excited to see how it does.

 

[bdesign]

Mad max was maintaining far right lane, chill in the left lane, wife said turn that shit off now. lol there is some inconsistency for sure

Mine said the exact same thing!
Haha

Super erratic; swerving hard at non-existent obstacles, launching much too hard/abruptly from a stop, randomly hard braking at nothing (MAYBE at the black squiggly crack filler on the road?) and then a lurching quick acceleration, and self-parked perfectly at the charging station… just two or three stalls beyond the nearest charger

She will no longer tolerate FSD when she’s with me.

Sucks

 

[REM]

Well.. theres the accelerator and brake pedals lol.

i get what they're doing. They are removing the user controls so that FSD can learn to do it on its own. Disengagements and driver intervention are punishment. Letting it go and no driver engagement until completion are the reward.

I think most folks don't know how to perform local training either; as I have already had several instances of v14 not doing the exact correct thing, and when I provide the correct feedback, it corrects the action going forward.

I asked for a video demonstrating the issue, because I want to see the whole process. I have several roads in my area with incorrect speed limit data, yet my truck doesn't speed in those areas because I do several things to introduce immediate feedback into the system.

Your Tesla has a short and medium term memory, and when you provide feedback, it will correct itself over time.

I'd like to see footage of these incidents before I place all the blame on FSD. These systems don't run on magic, and you need to know how they operate before you opt into an early access product.

Just yesterday I saw someone post a video complaining about speed while they were in f****** MAD MAX MODE the whole time.

 

[JCERRN]

I think most folks don't know how to perform local training either; as I have already had several instances of v14 not doing the exact correct thing, and when I provide the correct feedback, it corrects the action going forward.

I asked for a video demonstrating the issue, because I want to see the whole process. I have several roads in my area with incorrect speed limit data, yet my truck doesn't speed in those areas because I do several things to introduce immediate feedback into the system.

Your Tesla has a short and medium term memory, and when you provide feedback, it will correct itself over time.

I'd like to see footage of these incidents before I place all the blame on FSD. These systems don't run on magic, and you need to know how they operate before you opt into an early access product.

Just yesterday I saw someone post a video complaining about speed while they were in f****** MAD MAX MODE the whole time.

What is a real head scratcher is whether the company is expecting that 1. Average people will understand this, and/or 2. Expecting that anyone besides die-hard fans will have the patience to tolerate that especially now. Like i said, Most people just want set it and forget it when it comes to their cars. I guess statistically it doesnt matter because higher take rate and usage rate just means faster progression toward their goal. Less interaction means everyone juts gets it as it is, and deals with its limitations for longer. Idk either way tesla has basically sealed their guaranteed progression and likely the throne regarding AI powered self driving, even if their methods basically mean using the general population as test pilots.

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