Map setting: Satellite Imagery

[HaulingAss]

Any fix for this?
Thanks

None of our 3 Tesla have ever defaulted to Map View, they stay on satellite imagery.

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[JBee]

5G still only works in populated areas. I still haven't bothered to upgrade my phone because there is no coverage where I live, play and travel. Plus, I've had zero issues streaming and playing HD Netflix movies in real time, using 4G, in my Model 3.

I've followed the development of cellular data development since the 1990's, and I can tell you that 5G may be important for people who want to download huge files in a short period of time, or who need lower latency, but it's pretty meaningless to the types of functions performed by a Tesla vehicle.

The greatest value of 5G (vs. 4G LTE) is that it makes better use of the network operators' wireless spectrum. It will help reduce the per MB cost of wireless data, but the network operators still need to pay off the cost of all those upgrades. In an application like Tesla has, a limited amount of wireless data to a car, Tesla has decided the more expensive 5G enabled chips don't bring enough value to justify the additional cost.

I thought 5G only improves bandwidth if you are vaxxed?

Otherwise it's pretty pointless. I've had 4GX for +6 years now, on multiple devices, and thats 1gbps and really live out in the sticks, but still have reception nearly everywhere I go. Don't need faster on my mobile even with a few devices tethered and streaming 4k. Mind you in the USA our reception wasn't always crash hot, and we were on googlefi which apparently switches between networks.

5G is super short range and high power. If you want your battery to last longer turn it off under network settings. Thats what I do.

As for satellite maps, I often have mine on especially in new locations as I find it easier to navigate with the extra details and colours, but often wish for a proper 3D style like google earth. I hope they bring out some decent off road navigation for CT.

 

[Celiboy]

I noticed the same thing; I guess it might be a glitch, but I assumed Tesla had made that the default in order to save a crapton of money with the cell providers. Sat maps eat a LOT of data, and if they don't give an option to stay in that mode, it's likely most people won't bother switching most of the time.

It has to be a glitch. Three Teslas and I’ve never had one switch back to the non-satellite view on its own. Even my 2014 MS.

 

[Woodrick]

I thought 5G only improves bandwidth if you are vaxxed?


5G is super short range and high power. If you want your battery to last longer turn it off under network settings. Thats what I do.

I believe that you are confusing some of the options for 5G, but not all of them. There are lots of 5G options in the lower bands adjacent to 4G with the same coverage.
Yes, some of the new high microwave are really short, but they are for dense urban areas.
I've got 5G coverage in relatively low-population areas.

 

[JBee]

I believe that you are confusing some of the options for 5G, but not all of them. There are lots of 5G options in the lower bands adjacent to 4G with the same coverage.
Yes, some of the new high microwave are really short, but they are for dense urban areas.
I've got 5G coverage in relatively low-population areas.

I think you don't know the difference between frequency and range, and bandwidth and throughput.

The higher 5G frequencies where you get the extra data speed from, only works at higher 5G frequencies where you also have a wider bandwidth (that is a bigger frequency range).

It is impossible to get higher data throughput with low frequency. Essentially "bandwidth" is the amount of different frequencies that you transmit on at the same time, the more "channels" you use the more data and the more energy you use. In the millimeter wavelength this gets even worse, unless your standing outside under the 5G tower, because it barely has any penetration power through obstacles and even air attenuates it rapidly.

Point is that the higher 5G is specifically for high user density and high data throughput whilst being in clear sight of the tower. Otherwise 4G frequencies (and the ones used for 2G, 3G) provide much better range coverage, building penetration with less power, meaning your phone uses less power too. Also why 2.4Ghz wifi has better range indoors than 5Ghz.

So it's a no brainer to turn off 5G if the network is not congested and you already have connections faster than most web servers can handle on a single connection.

 

[Woodrick]

I think you don't know the difference between frequency and range, and bandwidth and throughput.

The higher 5G frequencies where you get the extra data speed from, only works at higher 5G frequencies where you also have a wider bandwidth (that is a bigger frequency range).

It is impossible to get higher data throughput with low frequency. Essentially "bandwidth" is the amount of different frequencies that you transmit on at the same time, the more "channels" you use the more data and the more energy you use. In the millimeter wavelength this gets even worse, unless your standing outside under the 5G tower, because it barely has any penetration power through obstacles and even air attenuates it rapidly.

Point is that the higher 5G is specifically for high user density and high data throughput whilst being in clear sight of the tower. Otherwise 4G frequencies (and the ones used for 2G, 3G) provide much better range coverage, building penetration with less power, meaning your phone uses less power too. Also why 2.4Ghz wifi has better range indoors than 5Ghz.

So it's a no brainer to turn off 5G if the network is not congested and you already have connections faster than most web servers can handle on a single connection.

Man, are you barking up the wrong tree trying to explain frequencies to me. I've got transceivers downstairs that allow me to talk up to 10 GHz.

Your confusion is tying frequency and 5G together. They aren't tied together.

Take a look at What frequency is 5G? All the different 5G ranges, explained | Digital Trends
T-Mobile has 5G on some of the lowest frequencies at 600MHz.

 

[JBee]

Man, are you barking up the wrong tree trying to explain frequencies to me. I've got transceivers downstairs that allow me to talk up to 10 GHz.

Your confusion is tying frequency and 5G together. They aren't tied together.

Take a look at What frequency is 5G? All the different 5G ranges, explained | Digital Trends
T-Mobile has 5G on some of the lowest frequencies at 600MHz.

I have a nuclear reactor in my basement for my inter-dimensional time machine.

Appeal to authority dosen't work if you choose to ignore the core of the argument.

The point is if you have 5G enabled it will use the higher frequencies that use more power per packet of data at range or in a building. That leads to shorter battery life. Conversely If you don't have 5G enabled it is limited to the lower 4G frequencies with better battery life.

BTW if 5G is using the lower bands it won’t be 5G "fast" either, and not much if at all better than 4G.

 

[ATXHOCKEYGAMER]

Any fix for this?
Thanks

Not that I have been able to find. Still goes back to non-satellite maps every time.

 

[Woodrick]

I have a nuclear reactor in my basement for my inter-dimensional time machine.

Appeal to authority dosen't work if you choose to ignore the core of the argument.

The point is if you have 5G enabled it will use the higher frequencies that use more power per packet of data at range or in a building. That leads to shorter battery life. Conversely If you don't have 5G enabled it is limited to the lower 4G frequencies with better battery life.

BTW if 5G is using the lower bands it won’t be 5G "fast" either, and not much if at all better than 4G.

You are absolutely wrong. My phone is currently locked on 600MHz frequencies. It's not attempting the higher ones. I'm seeing a true 5G indicator (i.e. not an ATT one).

It may work different in Australia, but that's the way it works in the US.

IF my phone was in NYC and my phone was capable of the higher frequencies, then it would switch to them and use them.

 

[Cybertruck26]

Now if we could only get Software updates through our lifetime Premium Connectivity.

 

[Woodrick]

Now if we could only get Software updates through our lifetime Premium Connectivity.

Really? That's a big deal for you? For most people it just doesn't matter.

 

[JBee]

You are absolutely wrong. My phone is currently locked on 600MHz frequencies. It's not attempting the higher ones. I'm seeing a true 5G indicator (i.e. not an ATT one).

It may work different in Australia, but that's the way it works in the US.

IF my phone was in NYC and my phone was capable of the higher frequencies, then it would switch to them and use them.

What phone do you have?

You still don't get how bandwidth relates to data transfer or battery consumption. Your 5G icon is meaningless at low frequencies, it could be 3G or 4G speeds.

You aren't on a high speed 5G connection, because at that frequency, bandwidth and data is limited by the physical modulation limits of the frequency.

 

[Woodrick]

What phone do you have?

You still don't get how bandwidth relates to data transfer or battery consumption. Your 5G icon is meaningless at low frequencies, it could be 3G or 4G speeds.

I know all of that. Like I said, I do it all on a regular basis.

It is absolutely meaningful at low frequencies. It's a different protocol.

You aren't on a high speed 5G connection, because at that frequency, bandwidth and data is limited by the physical modulation limits of the frequency.

You are still not understanding what 5G is. It's not "really fast speeds" That's just one feature in some situations, but only one feature is a bunch of other new features. 5G is a different signaling and communication protocol.

Notice starting at bullet 6 and beyond
What are the features and benefits of 5G technology? (techtarget.com)

 

[JBee]

I know all of that. Like I said, I do it all on a regular basis.

It is absolutely meaningful at low frequencies. It's a different protocol.


You are still not understanding what 5G is. It's not "really fast speeds" That's just one feature in some situations, but only one feature is a bunch of other new features. 5G is a different signaling and communication protocol.

Notice starting at bullet 6 and beyond
What are the features and benefits of 5G technology? (techtarget.com)

Are you trying to prove my point?
Why exactly do you think they need more cells?

Its obviously because they don't have the range at the higher frequencies used because they don't propogate as well.

6.
"Network densification is driven by the lower propagation qualities of the high-frequency spectrum 5G uses, which require more cells in a particular space. Making the network denser requires more base stations and small cell and macrocell base stations.

Massive MIMO extends coverage and network capacity in 5G networks. The technology facilitates the deployment of an expansive number of antennas to send and receive signals, improving both capacity and coverage."


This simply means the range is not so good, so you need more cells, and also means, like in my video, that you can have more devices in a given area because each device doesn’t interfere with the other, which gives more available bandwidth/data per device.

Conversely, this means for the same range as lower frequencies more power must be expended to move the same data over the same distance. Meaning more battery consumption on your mobile device.

Note I don't dispute the other benefits, like MIMO or spread spectrum use over a greater frequency range, but even those come at a battery cost on a user device.

The video was also meant to demostrate the relationship that frequency dictates bandwidth, and as per my first diagram, frequency also range, meaning that the overlap of these at higher frequencies 5G has more data throughput, you also have less range and more power use.

There's only so many ways you can manipulate waveform modulation before you have maxed out the frequency bandwidth, as per the video, and when you do the tradeoff is more power use.

Note here 5G is primarily a benefit to cell operators that operate on a fixed amount of licenced frequency spectrum, and only makes sense in "over-populated" urban environments where user cell density exceeds the data bandwidth available in that spectrum in that area.

That is why the lower 4G frequencies are better, especially user side for battery consumption, which remains my point and why I turn off 5G to reduce battery cycling (along with limiting charge to 85% SOC) for longer battery life.

 

[Woodrick]

Are you trying to prove my point?
Why exactly do you think they need more cells?

Its obviously because they don't have the range at the higher frequencies used because they don't propogate as well.

6.
"Network densification is driven by the lower propagation qualities of the high-frequency spectrum 5G uses, which require more cells in a particular space. Making the network denser requires more base stations and small cell and macrocell base stations.

Massive MIMO extends coverage and network capacity in 5G networks. The technology facilitates the deployment of an expansive number of antennas to send and receive signals, improving both capacity and coverage."


This simply means the range is not so good, so you need more cells, and also means, like in my video, that you can have more devices in a given area because each device doesn’t interfere with the other, which gives more available bandwidth/data per device.

Conversely, this means for the same range as lower frequencies more power must be expended to move the same data over the same distance. Meaning more battery consumption on your mobile device.

Note I don't dispute the other benefits, like MIMO or spread spectrum use over a greater frequency range, but even those come at a battery cost on a user device.

The video was also meant to demostrate the relationship that frequency dictates bandwidth, and as per my first diagram, frequency also range, meaning that the overlap of these at higher frequencies 5G has more data throughput, you also have less range and more power use.

There's only so many ways you can manipulate waveform modulation before you have maxed out the frequency bandwidth, as per the video, and when you do the tradeoff is more power use.

Note here 5G is primarily a benefit to cell operators that operate on a fixed amount of licenced frequency spectrum, and only makes sense in "over-populated" urban environments where user cell density exceeds the data bandwidth available in that spectrum in that area.

That is why the lower 4G frequencies are better, especially user side for battery consumption, which remains my point and why I turn off 5G to reduce battery cycling (along with limiting charge to 85% SOC) for longer battery life.

Range is not as good on the higher frequencies. That's important in dense urban areas like NYC where the pop/sqmi is huge. But that's only in dense urban areas. Outside the dense urban areas, you will NEVER find the higher frequencies deployed.
So for 99.9% of the US and probably 99.99% of the land mass of AU, you will not see the higher frequencies deployed, it just won't work. It doesn't even work in surburban areas.

Your last point shows that you just aren't getting it. There are no such thing as 4G frequencies. Just like there is no such thing as 3G frequencies and no such thing as 5G frequencies.

Sure, you may hear a carrier talk about deploying a system on one set of frequencies, but that's only because they don't mix that well and they deploy on one, but then backfill on the others are handsets move to the new allocations.

Here's another article 5G bands cheat sheet: Verizon vs AT&T vs Sprint vs T-Mobile vs World - PhoneArena
Look at all the 5G on the low and middle bands.

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