Model Y Refresh (Juniper) Revealed

[HaulingAss]

Many people on this forum who own CT's want more range.

That hasn't been my observation. From what I've seen, most Cybertruck owners are more than happy with more than 300 miles of EPA range. I know I am, and I use my truck for a wide variety of tasks. Including road trips. I recently took a road trip to Reno and a bigger battery would have been of zero extra utility. Charge stops did not come too often, and they were, if anything, too short.

Home charging doesn't help on long trips, especially in the winter.

I've been driving all electric for a long time now. So I know that it doesn't matter, in any significant manner, whether you have 300 or 400 miles of range. The problem happens with vehicles around 225-250 miles of range. Sure, shorter range vehicles will work, but it's far from optimum. What defines how much range you need? The state of the DCFC network(s) you are relying on, 400+ miles of range does not make long-distance trips any faster, it just makes it take longer to charge.

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[GuyV]

Tell that to all the EV owners, including on this forum, who want more range. I have a long range Model 3 with "350" miles of range, which of course it almost never gets close to in the real world, and I'd like more range.

That's why they've promised a range extender. I think the real answer for EV towing is trailers with batteries. They can add range and an extra power source at a destination. Some have suggested self-powered, but no Tesla at least lacks sufficient torque and horsepower, so I don't see drive units adding anything useful.

 

[GuyV]

I don't think Tesla plans on a M2 at the moment, no. It was shelved per the company and Elon. I don't buy what he says often, either, but it's typically overselling not short selling.

Yeah, we know he really hates short selling.

I do think though that his willingness to pull demand levers when necessary could eventually extend to pedals. That turn signal stalk on the Y refresh is a pretty big clue. ?

 

[HaulingAss]

You’re probably right. Sad days. If the Y got those things it would be a force to be reckoned with. Might actually convince me to make it my daily over the CT because of its efficiency. So on second thought I’m glad it doesn’t have any of that lol

Do you realize how silly that sounds? That the Tesla Model Y needs more features to be a force to be reckoned with???

I'm being serious. The Model Y is the best-selling car world wide.

 

[GuyV]

I personally am not liking the rear/exterior lights. Something about the overall look seems too American /Buick...

I really like the indirect taillight bar. I think it's nice break from all the common tricks of hiding the lightbulbs behind plastic.

 

[GuyV]

In Oz, we say, 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it'
Just another way to look at things!

12V has been broke for a long time.

 

[HaulingAss]

12V has been broke for a long time.

Well, 12V is not really "broke", it's just far from the optimal solution. Which is why Tesla provided a down and dirty guide for switching from 12V to 48V to all American manufacturers. This is how auto companies should collude with one another, focus on making the products more desirable by moving the industry forward.

 

[ABILISK]

Do you realize how silly that sounds? That the Tesla Model Y needs more features to be a force to be reckoned with???

I'm being serious. The Model Y is the best-selling car world wide.

Don’t get me wrong, it’s a fantastic car and it’s best selling for a reason - just saying if the Y had features like SBW/4WS it could really compete with CT.

 

[countryboy]

Don’t get me wrong, it’s a fantastic car and it’s best selling for a reason - just saying if the Y had features like SBW/4WS it could really compete with CT.

Too expensive, refresh are mainly focused on optimizing cost for profit. These features will show up in MS/MX before M3/MY, which is when I plan on switching primary car from M3P to MSP. Rumor is 2026. Fingers crossed.

 

[BannedByTMC]

What defines how much range you need? The state of the DCFC network(s) you are relying on, 400+ miles of range does not make long-distance trips any faster, it just makes it take longer to charge.

400+ "ideal" miles of range, less in real life, means I wouldn't need to stop and charge at all on some trips where I currently have to. Not a huge deal but if it were available I'd take it as would probably most people. There are plenty of people who were quite unhappy that the CT did not come with the originally claimed 500 miles of range. I've also been driving EV's for a long time and the most often asked questions about them are how much do they cost, how far can they go on a charge, and how long does it take to charge.

 

[JBee]

I like it but will probably wait for bidirectional charging before I upgrade my Model Y. Last year Tesla said all new models will be bidirectional starting in 2025. Maybe this isn't considered a new model. Perhaps AI5 and bidirectional capability will come around the same time. I do like the addition of the new front camera.

From what I've heard Tesla will be enabling bidirectional on all models, including existing models that nearly all already have the hardware installed.

This has had some discussion over the years, the built in chargers in Teslas is a H-bridge inverter which can be switched with the right firmware to operate in both directions. Even the original Roadster and MS had this.

In fact theres is a German company that sells a bidirectional charger already that can communicate with the charger port to place it in outpit mode with existing hardware and firmware. Should be realeased officially this year.

 

[HaulingAss]

400+ "ideal" miles of range, less in real life, means I wouldn't need to stop and charge at all on some trips where I currently have to. Not a huge deal but if it were available I'd take it as would probably most people. There are plenty of people who were quite unhappy that the CT did not come with the originally claimed 500 miles of range. I've also been driving EV's for a long time and the most often asked questions about them are how much do they cost, how far can they go on a charge, and how long does it take to charge.

If you were driving 6 hours, wouldn't you want to take a road trip break anyway? How many long-distance driving trips did you take in 2024? For most people it would make zero sense to haul around a heavier battery everywhere they went just to avoid plugging in for a few minutes a handful of times.

The future lies in having charging wherever cars park, not cars with burdensome batteries. Even before EVs were popular, it was important to keep the weight of cars and trucks to a minimum. Things that move should be light and easy to change direction or slow down, because that reduces the power needed, the energy consumed, the rate of tire and brake wear, the size and weight of wheels, brakes and suspension components needed, the strength of the chassis and bumpers, etc, etc, etc. Weight just begets more weight. Light is right.

 

[BannedByTMC]

From what I've heard Tesla will be enabling bidirectional on all models, including existing models that nearly all already have the hardware installed.

This has had some discussion over the years, the built in chargers in Teslas is a H-bridge inverter which can be switched with the right firmware to operate in both directions. Even the original Roadster and MS had this.

In fact theres is a German company that sells a bidirectional charger already that can communicate with the charger port to place it in outpit mode with existing hardware and firmware. Should be realeased officially this year.

Coincidentally I recently saw this:



Independent review:

 

[BannedByTMC]

If you were driving 6 hours, wouldn't you want to take a road trip break anyway? How many long-distance driving trips did you take in 2024? For most people it would make zero sense to haul around a heavier battery everywhere they went just to avoid plugging in for a few minutes a handful of times.

Real world means a "400 mile" pack doesn't give you 400 miles so it's not a 6 hour trip, more like 5, and yes I can usually do 5 hours without stopping and I'd like it to be my choice not the vehicle's. Following your logic there is no need for more than maybe a 150 mile range pack to avoid plugging in for a few minutes at a time. You also ignore the fact that a larger pack will be running at a lower C rate for the same power level and will last longer.

The future lies in having charging wherever cars park, not cars with burdensome batteries. Even before EVs were popular, it was important to keep the weight of cars and trucks to a minimum. Things that move should be light and easy to change direction or slow down, because that reduces the power needed, the energy consumed, the rate of tire and brake wear, the size and weight of wheels, brakes and suspension components needed, the strength of the chassis and bumpers, etc, etc, etc. Weight just begets more weight. Light is right.

During long distance highway travel, when range actually matters, weight has a far lower impact than aerodynamics, plus the extra capacity would only add the weight of about one additional passenger. You notice a range difference when you carry a passenger? I don't. You also ignore the continued improvement in battery energy density which means extra capacity without weight penalty.

 

[JBee]

Coincidentally I recently saw this:



Independent review:

Yep thats another variation.

Apparently EM didn't think adding it would be "useful" if you didn't have a Powerwall at home to power it, when your car isn't home...

Good way to get you to buy more Tesla products I suppose.

But now many other EVs have it, and it's becoming a selling point, and luckily it didn't make sense to engineer the charger/inverter so it didn't have that capability, so it stayed in production with existing vehicles. It wouldn't of saved any money either, in fact adding protection diodes to make it one way would have made it more expensive and complex with more high power parts to fail.

But I think the real failure is that they didn't add an internal 110/240V outlet (on top of the NACS outlet) that can also be used while you drive as well. Technically possible to mod it to grab the AC powerlines internally, but from what I can tell the charger/inverter is locked out when out of park, so you'd need a firmware hack as well.

That would of been an easy add to the Juniper seeing the feature will officially be enabled this year anyway.

Sometimes they just don't get that "public facing feature set", although EM might be a decent engineer and businessman, I really doubt he gets much opportunity to be a "experienced user" of his own products anymore. So like his ModelX rear doors he's not always in touch with some of the little intricacies of life (like more range and bidirectional) that would make peoples lives better, simply because his veiws are becoming too big picture to notice, and design choices/choices nearly all run through him. Needs some more delegation in the feature lines IMHO with better feedback loops.

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