Moved topic: carbon capture is going to have to be part of the future

[Ogre]

I wouldn't totally disagree with that view.

On the other hand, I would argue that outside of Tesla, the consensus (there is that word again) about Tesla has been that if anyone could turn the current crisis around it might just be Tesla because they are our best hope. But even your words above still possess an element of doubt in that you are just hoping they can do it.

I believe that what we saw with Master Plan 3 is a rational, demonstrable, roadmap of how it is going to be accomplished. Additionally showing that Tesla is fully capable of accomplishing it. And this Master Plan 3 is backed up by the historical track record of Master Plans 1,2. At this point, there is very little doubt that the plan is going to move forward. And as long as Tesla is allowed to continue operating, the plan is going to be accomplished. From what I saw in the talk, it is pretty clear that the solar industry is already on board with the contributions they are making. As MP3 ripples out through the rest of the industries in the plan, I believe that others will also come on board.

In the end, Tesla will not need to do 100% of the plan by themselves. But the release of MP3 is where the tide shifts from doubt and curious wallflowers watching Tesla to a sizable portion of industry jumping on board to get a piece of the pie. It may take some time for MP3 to trickle through the minds of the doubters. But this is the turning point. This is where the thoughts change from "I hope someone does something" to "Tesla is going to do it, I better get on board or get crushed."

My concern isn’t with Tesla’s capability. It is that it is possible we are too late to really make a difference. What Musk didn’t say [during Investor Day Event] is that once we reach that goal, it is very likely we’ll need to start reversing some of the damage we’ve done. Carbon capture is going to have to be part of the future. Terra forming and preserving what we have will be a lot of work.

Tesla gives me hope in the future. I’m just a bit cynical about the rest of the world and timing.

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[TyPope]

My concern isn’t with Tesla’s capability. It is that it is possible we are too late to really make a difference. What Musk didn’t say is that once we reach that goal, it is very likely we’ll need to start reversing some of the damage we’ve done. Carbon capture is going to have to be part of the future. Terra forming and preserving what we have will be a lot of work.

Tesla gives me hope in the future. I’m just a bit cynical about the rest of the world and timing.

Trees will eventually capture all the carbon if we just stop putting all the extra carbon in the air.

 

[Ogre]

Trees will eventually capture all the carbon if we just stop putting all the extra carbon in the air.

Right now trees in some places are dying off pretty fast in some places. There are big stands of dead trees in California and it’s a growing issue in Oregon (not near as bad yet). 2 decades of drought plus bark beetles has had a huge impact. Those dead trees are much more likely to start a huge forest fire. Which dumps more carbon into the air.

This issue is going to get a lot worse before carbon levels stabilize. Reforesting these areas is going to be a big issue when the snows which watered them no longer come.

 

[TyPope]

Right now trees in some places are dying off pretty fast in some places. There are big stands of dead trees in California and it’s a growing issue in Oregon (not near as bad yet). 2 decades of drought plus bark beetles has had a huge impact. Those dead trees are much more likely to start a huge forest fire. Which dumps more carbon into the air.

This issue is going to get a lot worse before carbon levels stabilize. Reforesting these areas is going to be a big issue when the snows which watered them no longer come.

True. When you think about it, trees pull carbon from the air and then release it again when they rot away. It's just a lot slower than a fire!

 

[Crissa]

Trees will eventually capture all the carbon if we just stop putting all the extra carbon in the air.

Trees are basically carbon neutral. They only keep in carbon while they're alive.

Once they hit their lifespan, they rot or burn and release that carbon.

So planting trees is of limited utility.

And obviously, cutting trees is bad, because it encourages the forest to release its stored carbon.

They also need lots of water.

-Crissa

 

[Ogre]

Trees are basically carbon neutral. They only keep in carbon while they're alive.

Once they hit their lifespan, they rot or burn and release that carbon.

So planting trees is of limited utility.

And obviously, cutting trees is bad, because it encourages the forest to release its stored carbon.

They also need lots of water.

-Crissa

If you peel the bark and use proper drainage, they will capture that carbon for a good 50 years after death. Wood is remarkably long lasting if it’s treated properly. We just need specialists to identify dead or recently fallen trees, fell them or buck them, and build millions of giant log structures. Since all our real jobs will be taken by AI or robots in the near future, we’ll have plenty of time to focus on such pursuits.

 

[FutureBoy]

If you peel the bark and use proper drainage, they will capture that carbon for a good 50 years after death. Wood is remarkably long lasting if it’s treated properly. We just need specialists to identify dead or recently fallen trees, fell them or buck them, and build millions of giant log structures. Since all our real jobs will be taken by AI or robots in the near future, we’ll have plenty of time to focus on such pursuits.

Hmmm.... Build robots to do all my work so I can go out in the forest to cut, debark, relocate, and preserve dead trees. Maybe I'm too lazy but I'd prefer to keep my desk job and let the robots do the tree work.

But yes, with the number of robots that Elon is talking about, we'll have plenty of them to do the tree work. With enough green electricity we can build special vehicles to go out into the forests with the robots to cut, and retrieve the dead trees. While they are out there, they might as well plant new replacement trees too.

With enough electricity, there will be many other ways to do carbon sequestration. Currently one of the problems we have is that many of the sequestration ideas take lots of energy to do but if that energy comes from fossil fuels, we end up with a net negative carbon sequestration. Getting these techniques to be more efficient is one way to make them work but may take a very long time to accomplish. Another way to do it is to just green the power source and provide plenty of that power.

 

[SolarWizard]

I think anyone feigning panic over carbon emissions needs to realize that the earth has survived and returned from unfathomable devastation hundreds if not thousands of times. Human civilization has dealt with crazy nearly indescribable circumstances but we are still basically just as incapable of stopping the return of those events as we were 100,000 years ago.

We can’t guarantee any species will survive for any significant predetermined length of time nor can we stop the next cataclysm whether that be super volcanos, superstorms, astroids/comet strikes, virus/bateria/fungi takeover, earthquakes or stellar events of all varieties. Might as well throw the potential for aliens or ai attacks now as well and my personal favorite, nuclear winter.

Of course its foolish to dig shit out of the ground and burn it to maintain civilization but the ego required to think that we are in control is absolutely massive. We should work to improve our natural world as quickly as possible but its quite u likely that will matter given a long enough duration, else space would be teeming with intelligent life that survived the Great Filter.

 

[Ogre]

Who let the flat earther in?

We have never previously been capable as a civilization of doing what we are at the moment. So how can you claim we’ve done it “Thousands of times”. The technology to extract and burn fossil fuels on the scale it exists today has simply not existed previously.

Vikings burning down a village is by nature of a limited scope.

Nobody is panicking. Discussing the consequences of actions.

 

[Mini2nut]

Timber framed buildings are starting to hit the commercial building segment.

 

[Sirfun]

Who let the flat earther in?

We have never previously been capable as a civilization of doing what we are at the moment. So how can you claim we’ve done it “Thousands of times”. The technology to extract and burn fossil fuels on the scale it exists today has simply not existed previously.

Vikings burning down a village is by nature of a limited scope.

Nobody is panicking. Discussing the consequences of actions.

Funny comment about the flat earther. But I think what SolarWiz was referring to is that over the life of our planet there have been numerous Natural catastrophes with an occasional extinction thrown in now and then. And that Earth with natural catastrophes are not something we humans can control. I believe this is one of the reasons Elon is striving to make Humans a multi-planet species. But also he is saying we may not have control, but we have influence. So why not work on positive influences.

 

[Ogre]

Funny comment about the flat earther. But I think what SolarWiz was referring to is that over the life of our planet there has had numerous Natural catastrophes with an occasional extinction thrown in now and then. And that Earth with natural catastrophes are not something we humans can control. I believe this is one of the reasons Elon is striving to make Humans a multi-planet species. But also he is saying we may not have control, but we have influence. So why not work on positive influences.

I’m sure the dinosaurs would have worked to create a meteor defense system if they’d known in advance…

Unlike the dinosaurs, this will take time. We have a decent idea of what is going on. And there are things we can do to at least slow it down. Given the alternative, I’d prefer we did what we can to avoid it.

This is one of the reasons I love Musk. He is one of the few people bold enough to say “Fuck it, we can fix this shit”.

 

[FutureBoy]

Hmmm.... Given all the speculation about extinction level catastrophe's, flat earthers, ancient aliens, previous advanced civilizations...

Some dinosaurs had large brains. What if there were intelligent dinosaurs (maybe smarter than us), possibly genetically modified by the aliens, that built advanced civilizations (the great pyramid and other such ancient archaeology), that were then destroyed in the mass extinctions.

Not sure how the flat earthers come into play but they are probably the ones who prevented the dinos from being able to survive the extinction level event.

 

[Kahpernicus]

Hmmm.... Given all the speculation about extinction level catastrophe's, flat earthers, ancient aliens, previous advanced civilizations...

Some dinosaurs had large brains. What if there were intelligent dinosaurs (maybe smarter than us), possibly genetically modified by the aliens, that built advanced civilizations (the great pyramid and other such ancient archaeology), that were then destroyed in the mass extinctions.

Not sure how the flat earthers come into play but they are probably the ones who prevented the dinos from being able to survive the extinction level event.

 

[Ogre]

Timber framed buildings are starting to hit the commercial building segment.

My buddy does a lot of engineering work for a company that manufactures laminated wood products. Not like plywood, but big stuff, almost looks like stacks of 2x6s glued together. Pretty crazy stuff.

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