Ok if GM/Ford go under?

Wiigin

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unfortunately, I don't see ford making it another 5-7 years. they have not really done any innovations to their cash cow (F-150), although they did hit a home run with their soon to be released Bronco. Just a little too late, Cybertruck will eat their lunch next year and will be the beginning of the end for them. I think eventually they will sell off their icons, but ford will not remain. they are too in debt and burdened with pension payouts.
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dano0726

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Ford isn't going anywhere -- the one domestic car company that will survive. It's the only other car brand I would consider (picking from F-150, Ranger, Bronco, Bronco Sport, and Raptor) that can "hang" with Tesla. And, Ford owns the U.S. fleet sales...

FCA (or whatever they're called now) only has the Jeep brand (more specifically the Wrangler) that brings in the enterprise-wide cash flows to bankroll all the other brands.

GM won't get another taxpayer-funded (and left hanging) cash infusion
 

fritter63

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I prefer to entertain the idea of Tesla buying Ford in a fire sale and not only using its factories, but using the “model E” trademark as it should. ?
 

Akgolf

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Crissa

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Union, yes; UAW, maybe not.

Unions need to protect their members, but they also need to not hurt others with split level contracts and lines that cut out the engineers and contractors from being considered employees.

Unions (although not their exclusivity) are good for safety.

-Crissa
 

KendrickMB

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I like competition, so I'd prefer they don't fail. Ford definitely will not fail. The F-150 outsells everything and will continue to outsell everything for a long time. The GM twins and the Ram sell in ridiculously high numbers as well. Including their other high selling vehicles, the big three are in no risk anytime soon, even if they don't switch to EVs. On the other hand, if Ford discontinued ICE trucks and moved forward with only the electric F-150, Ford would still outsell everyone assuming compromises weren't made that ruined the truck. Ford (and I'd argue GM and FCA) is prosperously safe until the public demands EVs to the point that ICE sales are non-existent.
 

KendrickMB

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Just because F150s sell doesn't mean the company won't go under. It's just one product.

-Crissa
Why would Ford go under then? If sales aren't keeping them afloat, what is? I have no evidence, but I'd bet their service and parts are doing well in addition to sales. They also were willing to put money into Rivian.

As far as just the F-150. Ford also sells a lot of the heavy duty trucks. The Mustang is still successful. They cut sedans in favor of SUVs, one of the biggest markers for vehicles. There seems to be good reception for the Bronco and I'd guess the Mach-E will be a success for Ford as well. Where is the danger there?
 

Crissa

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Why would Ford go under then?
Because the sales of one model isn't enough to manage their debt?

Unlike Tesla, they've not paid back the loans they took from the feds. They have alot of outstanding debt and may not be able to escape the dealer obligations.

-Crissa
 


dano0726

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Ford's loan advance wasn't part of the TARP bailout -- and they have about $1.5B left of debt to service (after starting around $6.9B way back in 2009)
 

Crissa

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Ford's loan advance wasn't part of the TARP bailout -- and they have about $1.5B left of debt to service (after starting around $6.9B way back in 2009)
That Ford's federal debt is from a different bill doesn't make it not part of the bailout. Why would you even make that argument? It's like saying Joe was paid on Monday instead of Friday when I said he was paid for this month.

Ford has assets to debt at 2:1 right now and their cash flow has not been consistent. So they're not likely to fail yet, but inconsistent income is a warning sign.

-Crissa
 

ldjessee

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That is not even a backhanded complement... pickup trucks are not innovative, in my opinion. Everything they have was done someplace else first.

Aluminum bodies, economical engines, hybrid powertrains... nothing new at all.

Even RAMs air suspension was not new...

As an example, the first aluminum body car was... in 1899 (or is it 1901?)... over 100 years ago. How long has aircraft, Airstream trailers, and many others been made from aluminum?
Morgan Olson made delivery trucks from aluminum in the 50s...
Even Chevy switched to aluminum for their 69 StepKing delivery truck...

Sorry, but ICE pickup trucks are WAY behind, so far behind that calling them innovative seems funny to me.
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