Transition to Clean Transport - Tesla leads while Toyota lags by nearly every measure

[Crissa]

The thing is, tesla does more damage to the environment as of now than toyota. The metric here is "zero-tailpipe-emission vehicles", which ignores the extended carbon cost for mining + processing materials for batteries, specialized tires, etc. a camry hybrid has less carbon cost than a model 3 up until something in the 150,000 mile range from the last data I saw. I think toyota is doing us all a bigger favor by not launching all in to higher priced and higher (initially at production time) environmentally damaging cars.

Alas, your statements are not based in reality.

Cheaper
https://insideevs.com/features/521424/tesla-model3-camry-hybrid-cost/

Cleaner
https://www.reuters.com/business/au...lectric-vehicles-vs-gasoline-cars-2021-06-29/

So no. It is cleaner. I'm not on the Cybertruck reservation list because it's cleaner, tho. I'm on it because they were the first in-production carmaker to offer a reservation at all in my price range.

-Crissa

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[firsttruck]

Tesla is a great company. Toyota is a great company.

Toyota was a great company.
Toyota is actively trying to slow the transition means it is NOT NOW a great company.

Do great companies cheat in both emissions & crash tests that can result in harm to real people!!

Toyota even shipped cars below crash test standards right here to Mexico. I know a couple people that have the models affected. Don't know if they will sue Toyota.

"Behind Every Great Fortune (where no obvious good cause is obvious) is probably from an Equally Great Crime" attributed to Balzac.

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Japanese car giant Toyota busted rigging crash tests on four new overseas models
Japanese auto giant Toyota and its small-car specialist Daihatsu have been caught fudging crash tests – less than a year after its truck division Hino was busted falsifying emissions testing data.
01 May 2023
By Alex Misoyannis
https://www.drive.com.au/news/toyota-admits-to-rigging-crash-tests-overseas/

....
News agency Reuters reported a "notch" was added to the inner door linings to "minimise the risk in testing that the door interior could break with a sharp edge and cause injury to an occupant when the side airbag deployed in an accident."

The change (the added notch) was subsequently not included on the production versions of four vehicles: the Toyota Yaris Ativ sold in Asia, Mexico and the Middle East, Toyota Agya in Ecuador, Perodua Axia in Malaysia


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https://www.motorbiscuit.com/makesh...-for-passing-crash-tests-under-investigation/

.....
Toyoda calls the discovery “unacceptable.” He apologized for what he said is a violation of consumer trust. Toyota’s CEO also said that no injuries or accidents occurred as a result of the fix on the fly, according to Reuters.

“We’ll proceed with a detailed investigation from here on, but promise to decisively understand what happened at the site, investigate the true intentions, and sincerely work to prevent a recurrence,” Toyoda said. “We’re going to need some time to do that.” However, there is no need for concern in the U.S. The Toyota Yaris Ativ sells mostly in Thailand, Malaysia, Mexico, and the Middle East.

** firsttruck, Oh so it is OK because only poorer countries got the more dangerous product.

.....
“We have to find the cause of what happened, including examining the environment in which it happened, and once we’ve confirmed that to take appropriate action to address the underlying cause,” said Toyota President Koji Sato. Toyoda added, “We can’t run away from this or hide.”


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Toyota fined for failing to report, fix emissions defects
Jan 14, 2021
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/toyota-fined-for-failing-to-report-fix-emissions-defects

Toyota will pay $180 million to settle U.S. government allegations that it failed to report and fix pollution control defects in its vehicles for a decade.

---------------------------------------------

Toyota sees shares tank after its truck unit admits to cheating diesel emissions tests.
2022Mar07
BY Christiaan Hetzner
Fortune
https://fortune.com ›

---------------------------------------------

Toyota Emissions Scandal; Toyota Unit Falsified Emission Data Since 2003 .
Not Toyota’s First “Emissions Scandal”.
August 3, 2022
Justin Fischer
https://caredge.com/guides/toyota-emissions-scandal

When Volkswagen was caught red-handed in 2015, its entire leadership structure was turned on its head.
....
Now we’ve learned about a different emissions scandal dating back nearly 20 years to 2003. This time, it’s from a Toyota owned brand; Hino Motors.

.....
Not Toyota’s First “Emissions Scandal” Today’s news is not the first Toyota “emissions scandal”. At the beginning of 2021, Toyota paid $180 million over U.S. Clean Air Act violations and settled with the United States federal government after a decade-long period (2005 to 2015) of misreporting emissions data.

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[Flaskman]

Do great companies cheat in both emissions & crash tests!!

Toyota even shipped cars below crash test standards right here to Mexico. I know a couple people that have the models affected. Don't know if they will sue Toyota.

"Behind Every Great Fortune is an Equally Great Crime" attributed to Balzac.

---------------------------------------------

Japanese car giant Toyota busted rigging crash tests on four new overseas models
Japanese auto giant Toyota and its small-car specialist Daihatsu have been caught fudging crash tests – less than a year after its truck division Hino was busted falsifying emissions testing data.
01 May 2023
By Alex Misoyannis
https://www.drive.com.au/news/toyota-admits-to-rigging-crash-tests-overseas/

....
News agency Reuters reported a "notch" was added to the inner door linings to "minimise the risk in testing that the door interior could break with a sharp edge and cause injury to an occupant when the side airbag deployed in an accident."

The change (the added notch) was subsequently not included on the production versions of four vehicles: the Toyota Yaris Ativ sold in Asia, Mexico and the Middle East, Toyota Agya in Ecuador, Perodua Axia in Malaysia


---------------------------------------------


https://www.motorbiscuit.com/makesh...-for-passing-crash-tests-under-investigation/

.....
Toyoda calls the discovery “unacceptable.” He apologized for what he said is a violation of consumer trust. Toyota’s CEO also said that no injuries or accidents occurred as a result of the fix on the fly, according to Reuters.

“We’ll proceed with a detailed investigation from here on, but promise to decisively understand what happened at the site, investigate the true intentions, and sincerely work to prevent a recurrence,” Toyoda said. “We’re going to need some time to do that.” However, there is no need for concern in the U.S. The Toyota Yaris Ativ sells mostly in Thailand, Malaysia, Mexico, and the Middle East.

** firsttruck, Oh so it is OK because only poorer countries got the more dangerous product.

.....
“We have to find the cause of what happened, including examining the environment in which it happened, and once we’ve confirmed that to take appropriate action to address the underlying cause,” said Toyota President Koji Sato. Toyoda added, “We can’t run away from this or hide.”


---------------------------------------------

Toyota fined for failing to report, fix emissions defects
Jan 14, 2021
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/toyota-fined-for-failing-to-report-fix-emissions-defects

Toyota will pay $180 million to settle U.S. government allegations that it failed to report and fix pollution control defects in its vehicles for a decade.

---------------------------------------------

Toyota sees shares tank after its truck unit admits to cheating diesel emissions tests.
2022Mar07
BY Christiaan Hetzner
Fortune
https://fortune.com ›

---------------------------------------------

Toyota Emissions Scandal; Toyota Unit Falsified Emission Data Since 2003 .
Not Toyota’s First “Emissions Scandal”.
August 3, 2022
Justin Fischer
https://caredge.com/guides/toyota-emissions-scandal

When Volkswagen was caught red-handed in 2015, its entire leadership structure was turned on its head.
....
Now we’ve learned about a different emissions scandal dating back nearly 20 years to 2003. This time, it’s from a Toyota owned brand; Hino Motors.

.....
Not Toyota’s First “Emissions Scandal” Today’s news is not the first Toyota “emissions scandal”. At the beginning of 2021, Toyota paid $180 million over U.S. Clean Air Act violations and settled with the United States federal government after a decade-long period (2005 to 2015) of misreporting emissions data.

---------------------------------------------

Ok. You have me convinced.

 

[cvalue13]

 

[Easyejl]

Alas, your statements are not based in reality.

Cheaper
https://insideevs.com/features/521424/tesla-model3-camry-hybrid-cost/

Cleaner
https://www.reuters.com/business/au...lectric-vehicles-vs-gasoline-cars-2021-06-29/

So no. It is cleaner. I'm not on the Cybertruck reservation list because it's cleaner, tho. I'm on it because they were the first in-production carmaker to offer a reservation at all in my price range.

-Crissa

I'm on it because i'm a gen X nerd. That's really all it took. Then again, I owned an Aztek back in the day too

 

[JBee]

It's a bit like solar PV that is only so cheap because cheap fossil energy subsidises the high energy manufacturing cost.

But with lifetime cycle emissions you must take into account "life-time" in the equation. I'm expecting the CT to be multigenerational, which if true will knock any comparative ICE vehicle out of the park on g/km emissions.

Another point to consider is where the vehicle is being used. If an ICE is predominantly used in city stop and go, the ICE will obviously not be as good as it continues to produce emissions whilst stationary and not putting miles on the clock. Many report overviews or summaries don't highlight their statistical sensitivities, which means averaging driving profiles skews the picture depending on where and how you drive.

The dominant factor to consider though, in all life cycle costs, is whether those emissions are recoverable. Really the only time "emissions" are damaging is when they directly interact with the environment and produce a net negative effect on the environment. For example it is technically possible to mine something once and continuously remanufacture or refurbish it for centuries or even longer. At that point the life cycle becomes so long that it spreads the lifetime emissions so thin it barely has a net negative impact. Some things can even have a net benefit, if we would finally put externalities on corporate and government balance sheets.

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