Winching...

[Deleted member 3316]

If you liked that then I’m sure you’ll like this.
I think a setup similar to this on the Cybertruck would be epic.

In the Cybertruck config I was thinking portal hubs on fully independent suspension all around.
Giving ground clearance (not running clearance or suspension clearance or whatever BS OEMs use to give a bigger number) of around 350-400mm!

The winch spool and gearing could be mounted in the dead space under the tray, forward of the rear drive unit. This would negate the need for a moveable unit or two winches front and rear.

love this post if you want a Power Take Off (PTO) winch!!!!

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[FutureBoy]

If you liked that then I’m sure you’ll like this.
I think a setup similar to this on the Cybertruck would be epic.

Definitely an epic winch system. I’d also like to have the option to lock the wheels so my vehicle becomes the anchor. But beyond that this setup is super sweet!

I’ve been wondering what people meant when they talked about a single winch working out the front and the back but this video made that clear for me.

And I really like the internal winch setup. Keeps the outside clutter down and protects the winch itself.

And the speed is awesome. Way faster than most of the winches I see on YouTube. Not sure what Tesla has planned but if they used something like this I would be a serious fan boy.

 

[TruckElectric]

 

[FutureBoy]

If we don’t get an update soon you can cross out avid and use the term rabid.

 

[ldjessee]

I am not aware of any deadspace under the cybertruck. between the batteries, vault cover, suspension and storage... unless you mean the storage under the bed and want to use that for the winch...

 

[Deleted member 3316]

Yeah, that sounds good, but big winches are heavy, and lugging a 80 Lb winch around and sliding it into a 2" receiver isnt for everyone, UpToKnowGood. It would be easy to allow for a winch driven by a PTO, to minimize weight. PTO driven winches are stronger than the bumper winches powered by a small electric motor. A more elegant solution for a vehicle like the Cybertruck, if the designers are on the ball and want it to have off road capability.

I’m a big fan of this idea. A power take off would reduce weight and enable winching at high speed.

A clutched planetary gear using software to manage where the power goes. It would be so much easier to control movement with just the accelerator rather than modulating power to wheels and winch separately from two different systems.

Another advantage of the PTO is that it would enable things people hadn’t thought of like snow plows and other powered attachments. Imagine having the PTO front and rear.

Check out my previous post of a land rover with PTO.

 

[ldjessee]

An advantage of having an electrical power source is the ease of routing that power to where you need it.
I think I would prefer to burn up an electric winch motor than damage my main traction motor using a PTO... Just my opinion, YMMV.

 

[ajdelange]

You definitely wouldn't want to compromise the finely tuned design of the traction motors or their gearing with any kind of PTO kluge.

 

[Deleted member 3316]

An advantage of having an electrical power source is the ease of routing that power to where you need it.
I think I would prefer to burn up an electric winch motor than damage my main traction motor using a PTO... Just my opinion, YMMV.

How would you damage the traction motor?

You’d literally put less strain on it than driving even if you were pulling it up vertically. Do you remember that scene in “The Gods must be crazy”? Where a Land Rover was momentarily left to its own devices and managed to winch itself up a tree? The front motor on a Cybertruck is going to have significantly more torque than a 1960’s Land Rover.

It would be geared down so much that it would would be inconsequential.

The reason winch motors burn out is because they are designed to manage cost, voltage and packaging to fit in limited space.
The traction motor on a Cybertruck is designed for ludicrous sustained torque over a long time.

 

[Crissa]

How would you damage the traction motor?

Lots of ways.

There's the simple mechanical ones, such as bending or wearing the drive shaft in the motor from uneven loading. Then there's complex ones like wearing out the encoder or uneven demagnetization or heat damage to controller coils or capacitors.

I'm not saying I think it's likely, though, just that it's plausible.

-Crissa

 

[Deleted member 3316]

Lots of ways.

There's the simple mechanical ones, such as bending or wearing the drive shaft in the motor from uneven loading. Then there's complex ones like wearing out the encoder or uneven demagnetization or heat damage to controller coils or capacitors.

I'm not saying I think it's likely, though, just that it's plausible.

-Crissa

I guess it’s good to play devils advocate on these things but I’m pretty sure a competent engineer can solve for failure modes of intermittent use.

 

[ajdelange]

How would you damage the traction motor?

It wasn't damage I had in mind. The traction motors and gearing are designed to transmit power to the wheels of the vehicle and to do so at the maximum possible efficiency and that efficiency is chased to a fraction of a percent. To split the power mechanically would require extra gears, clutches, shafts, bearings etc and even while in the "disconnected" mode those components would introduce losses. That's not acceptable here where every watt counts. In addition you can't put a PTO shaft just anywhere. But you can run wire just anywhere.

Think a bit about the heat pump compressor. Why do you think it is driven by a separate electric motor as opposed to using mechanical takeoff from the traction motor as is done in ICE vehicles?

 

[ldjessee]

Having seen a wide variety of electric motors burn out, from aircraft tugs to forklifts to 3/4" drive hammer drills... electric motors can be burnt out. And, I have seen people offroading burn up or otherwise damage gas and diesel engines as well...

Things fail, got abused, or something weird happens and before you know it... blam.

 

[Deleted member 3316]

It wasn't damage I had in mind. The traction motors and gearing are designed to transmit power to the wheels of the vehicle and to do so at the maximum possible efficiency and that efficiency is chased to a fraction of a percent. To split the power mechanically would require extra gears, clutches, shafts, bearings etc and even while in the "disconnected" mode those components would introduce losses. That's not acceptable here where every watt counts. In addition you can't put a PTO shaft just anywhere. But you can run wire just anywhere.

Think a bit about the heat pump compressor. Why do you think it is driven by a separate electric motor as opposed to using mechanical takeoff from the traction motor as is done in ICE vehicles?

I hear you. But a heat pump is used every time the vehicle moves. Generally in an ICE vehicle the engine is running the whole time and it’s just advantageous to use an easily controlled electric motor. I believe the Bollinger B1&B2 are going to include a hydraulic winch because they’re using hydro-pneumatic suspension.

A winch “should” realistically only be used a few times a year. Which is why the suboptimal 12v electric motor is used, cheap simple to install aftermarket. The duty cycle and power of a small motor is only just functional for those rare use cases.

The efficiency price is definitely an engineering challenge but considering the use cases a PTO still has merit.

All that said I think Tesla will just provide 110v/240v and control wires to the front/rear and provide user customisable software to control what ever is plugged in to it.
I wonder which aftermarket manufacturers will be the first to build the appropriate winch to utilise it.....!?

 

[TruckElectric]

New Jeep concept Magneto comes with a Warn winch!

Jeep's Magneto Concept Is the Fully Electric Wrangler of the Future
This Wrangler EV matches the stock V-6 model's performance—and it even has a manual transmission.

https://www.motortrend.com/news/jeeps-magneto-concept-wrangler-ev-photos-details/

Magneto comes with a 2-inch lift, auxiliary lighting, a roll cage, rock rails, a Warn winch and 35-inch Falken WildPeak mud-terrain tires.
https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/...cepts-magneto-ev-jeepster-wrangler-gladiator/


"it has an electric motor that offers up to 273 pound-feet of torque and 285 horsepower, and it comes equipped with an 800-volt system spread across four battery packs"
https://www.theverge.com/2021/3/22/...eto-concept-ev-manual-transmission-stellantis

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