Yoke to Steering wheel; is this too obvious?

Morning Star

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Again, this isn't a matter of personal preference. This is a matter of a tool failing at it's primary job. But yes let's see what other people who have driven it think.

Motor Trend: (Check out the video of them steering.)
The Model S Plaid's steering ratio simply isn't quick enough to make low-speed maneuvers anything less than a burden.
We went into our steering yoke experience with an open mind, but the more time we spent with the 2022 Tesla Model S Plaid, the less we liked it.
Consumer Reports:
Over the course of a full week, 10 of our test drivers chronicled every time it slipped out of their hands during a turn, every ache and pain from gripping the handles during a highway cruise, every time a testerā€™s hands didnā€™t fit on the yokeā€™s grips, every time we accidentally honked the horn while trying to make a turn, and every time we had to look down to see which turn signal was which...
But the steering wheel is so essential, ubiquitous, and universally understood, that to change it for the sake of changing it seems both foolish and foolhardy.
The fact there are replacement steering wheels out there with the main appeal of being a circle says a lot. And even Tesla themselves are walking back the yoke and putting the horn back where it's traditionally been.

I'm not trying to be a jerk. I'm just frustrated at Tesla making changes for the worse, and I want a cool, functional truck.
 
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SwampNut

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But yes let's see what other people who have driven think.
I don't care what others think, and I avoid "car news" for the same reasons I avoid mainstream news. All clickbait bullshit.

CR and MT are the top two bullshitters.

How much time have YOU spent driving it?
 

JBee

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I'm not going to judge the yoke without driving it. I think Sandi Munro & Assoc were skeptical at first - but, after using it ended up really liking it.

I have an aviation background so fly by wire is a NON ISSUE for me. If aircraft can use it safely AND the manufactures have built in redundancy in OK with it as well.

I would much prefer that variable rate steering be implemented before buying a vehicle with a yoke!

Regarding the controls (no stalks) I do wish there was a turn signal stalk. Maybe, that will be something that could be added later aftermarket. But, since most drivers don't know how to use a turn signal properly it likely won't be a priority. And, if FSD becomes popular and is used it will be automatic anyway.

No physical horn - I could not care less! I was LE for 26 yrs and a highway guy for much of that time. The only time I've ever heard of it seen a horn used to prevent an accident was in a parking lot! All the other times - if one can use a horn that person should have been steering their car. And, when they do sound the horn the event is over and they are merely expressing frustration - which is pretty useless.

The only valid (IMHO) negative I've read here is the comment about steer by wire not being allowed in 4 wheeling (I'm assuming competition) and for the CT this week be a very small group of people. Not to diminish that person's concerns - but, it won't be a priority for Tesla when trying to move forward with technology.
If you have a aviation background then you'd also know that fly by wire controls have redundancy backups, are subject to stringent pre-flight and maintenance checks, and cost several orders of magnitude more than a CT? (Thats a lot of zeros more).

My argument isn't specifically that drive by wire can't be made safe, just that its much harder to do at a car price point and is simply not required for steering loads experienced on a vehicle, which are nothing compared to a few hundred ton jet.

For example how do you ensure power backup if the traction battery has an issue, or feedback of steering forces (another motor?), then do it with redundancy, and will that weigh less than installing a 2kg steering tube to the wheel that does the same?

This is why I doubt CT will get it at its price point, despite the wishful thinking being expressed here. None of the Teslas have it neither have there been any announcements that it will.

The yoke shape is a completely different issue for use off road in that the non-round surfaces create a blunt impact edge that a round steering wheel just doesn't have. At a bare minimum it would need variable rate steering (which until now has been solved mechanicaly) and some sort of real time kick back protection. Then it still becomes an agility and comfort problem.
 


SwampNut

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The A320 is fly by wire with lots of redundant systems, that's why they have never crashed. Well, technically, it flies itself all the way to the scene of the crash.
 

Crissa

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Interesting, I didn't know that. But you can't exactly to do hand-to-hand or shuffle steering with a yoke either.
You don't need to. Both of those are consistently negative about Tesla and backwards in their technology reviews.

Hand over hand was developed when steering took an amount of muscle. It provides a large arc for your arm and shoulder to hold the wheel against the feedback of the tires turning.

But today the amount of pressure needed is measured in ounces, not pounds. And there's an explosive pack set in the middle of the steering control.

Now you can steer and resist turning with a single finger. You don't need that death-grip to keep the car pointed where you want to go. And you want your fingers always pointed away from the center, so if that airbag does deploy, your hands open naturally as they're forced outside the grip. No thumbs inside the wheel when gripping the top or sides! So you also never want to reach across of over the top while moving forward or where something may be coming from forward. So like, never.

The pattern is inverse and delicate controls, hands sliding across your lap, or open palmed to the upper half.

-Crissa
 
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shaneaus

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If you have a aviation background then you'd also know that fly by wire controls have redundancy backups, are subject to stringent pre-flight and maintenance checks, and cost several orders of magnitude more than a CT? (Thats a lot of zeros more).

My argument isn't specifically that drive by wire can't be made safe, just that its much harder to do at a car price point and is simply not required for steering loads experienced on a vehicle, which are nothing compared to a few hundred ton jet.

For example how do you ensure power backup if the traction battery has an issue, or feedback of steering forces (another motor?), then do it with redundancy, and will that weigh less than installing a 2kg steering tube to the wheel that does the same?

This is why I doubt CT will get it at its price point, despite the wishful thinking being expressed here. None of the Teslas have it neither have there been any announcements that it will.

The yoke shape is a completely different issue for use off road in that the non-round surfaces create a blunt impact edge that a round steering wheel just doesn't have. At a bare minimum it would need variable rate steering (which until now has been solved mechanicaly) and some sort of real time kick back protection. Then it still becomes an agility and comfort problem.
Most of the concerns you brought up are already addressed by Tesla using the FSD components. And, the wiring for fly by wire redundancy using a 48v system in a Tesla could easily be completed in the wiring harness. The motor that turns the steering wheel can programmatically provide feedback.

Likely, the reduction and savings in not using the physical components used for the mechanical steering (I've removed these from other vehicles), the manufacturing/installation costs, etc would make it MORE economical to use by wire steering. The components are already in the vehicle for FSD. So, it's a matter of adding 15' of small diameter copper wiring and removing the other crap for the direct mechanical steering (shaft/bearings/gear).

The yoke shape is a different issue entirely and I concur that a round steering wheel would be better for off road. Personally, I think Tesla should offer the purchaser the iron if yoke or non-yoke steering wheel. So, on that single insure we agree.
 

charliemagpie

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Is this...... consumer reports ? Is this the mob I read about with a Ford executive on the board ?

Is this the same bunch of idiots who put a brick on the accelerator ?

I'm shocked this Einstein didn't use the extra headroom to try to use the Yolk whilst doing a head stand.

Next.
 

Crissa

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Is this...... consumer reports ? Is this the mob I read about with a Ford executive on the board ?
No, there's a Ford relative on the board, because it was founded by a previous generation after they'd retired,

Is this the same bunch of idiots who put a brick on the accelerator ?
Sortof. It took something like thirteen steps to override the Autopilot safeties. FSD is even more picky, and they haven't been able to fool it (or report on this, weirdly).

-Crissa
 


charliemagpie

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talk about making your bed. Legacy businesses have all angles covered.
 

JBee

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Most of the concerns you brought up are already addressed by Tesla using the FSD components. And, the wiring for fly by wire redundancy using a 48v system in a Tesla could easily be completed in the wiring harness. The motor that turns the steering wheel can programmatically provide feedback.

Likely, the reduction and savings in not using the physical components used for the mechanical steering (I've removed these from other vehicles), the manufacturing/installation costs, etc would make it MORE economical to use by wire steering. The components are already in the vehicle for FSD. So, it's a matter of adding 15' of small diameter copper wiring and removing the other crap for the direct mechanical steering (shaft/bearings/gear).

The yoke shape is a different issue entirely and I concur that a round steering wheel would be better for off road. Personally, I think Tesla should offer the purchaser the iron if yoke or non-yoke steering wheel. So, on that single insure we agree.
FSD doesn't add any hardware that you need for drive by wire steering. Any car with lane keep assist, even 20year old ICE ones, preferably with electric assistance, instead of hydraulic, are capable of self steering for drive by wire.

If you mechanically disconnect the steering box, that houses the electric power steering motor, the steering wheel will not have any way to convey feedback to the driver. Hence I said they would need to add a force feedback motor to the steering column, plus whatever motor controller, sensors etc to make the forc feedback steering wheel work. Then they need to add redundancies on top of that. FSD does not need any of that so its not included with FSD at all.

This will most definitely cost more than the steering shaft and a couple of bearings to hook it up to the existing rack and pinion steering.
 

SwampNut

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Now you can steer and resist turning with a single finger. You don't need that death-grip to keep the car pointed where you want to go. And you want your fingers always pointed away from the center, so if that airbag does deploy, your hands open naturally as they're forced outside the grip. No thumbs inside the wheel when gripping the top or sides! So you also never want to reach across of over the top while moving forward or where something may be coming from forward. So like, never.
I hadn't consciously thought of this, though now looking back, I know I've considered the fact that I turn into spaces with a single finger hooked in a spoke. And left turns are a matter of gripping as you said, inside the spoke/yoke and don't require a full turn. I kinda want to stick my action camera in the car and see how I drive. It's subconscious. My time with the X was only "thought required" for a few minutes. A total non-event. I expected to dislike it. Because I'd been told it was terrible.
 

Morning Star

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Now you can steer and resist turning with a single finger. You don't need that death-grip to keep the car pointed where you want to go. And you want your fingers always pointed away from the center, so if that airbag does deploy, your hands open naturally as they're forced outside the grip. No thumbs inside the wheel when gripping the top or sides! So you also never want to reach across of over the top while moving forward or where something may be coming from forward. So like, never.

The pattern is inverse and delicate controls, hands sliding across your lap, or open palmed to the upper half.

-Crissa
You make it sound so elegant. So far I havenā€™t seen anyone use the yoke that way. This is the most positive video review I could find so far, and itā€™s not pretty.

Sponsored

 
 




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