BREAKING: Electrify America to adopt Tesla NACS connector by 2025

[greggertruck]

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[Gurule92]

We didn't know that already?

Lol I guess they didn't have a choice

 

[cvalue13]

Electrify America to add North American Charging Standard (NACS) connector by 2025 (tmcnet.com)

How Tesla is taking control of North America's electric car chargers | PerthNow

 

[cvalue13]

" Electrify America will continue to provide the Combined Charging System (CCS-1) connector throughout its network as it transitions to also support automakers adding NACS charging ports. "

I feel like we're seeing the long game of these OEM's adopting NACS.

Once the charge network companies start to include both NACS and CCS both, the IRA's qualifications for funding begin to implode for real.

As a result, for all of Tesla and the OEM's, it will mean a collective expansion of everyone's charge network. OEM's with both CCS and NACS vehicles on the road can go to either Tesla Superchargers or other charge networks. Just the same, Tesla with only NACS can go to either Tesla Supercharges or other charge networks.

In the long term, the charge network companies will eventually dissolve into NACS-only standards, and adaptors will be the bridge for languishing CCS affixed vehicles.

But in the near term (next 5 years), for a given vehicle model (whether Tesla or Other), access to charging will be on an exponential growth path in all directions.

On this view, what all did Tesla get out of allowing Ford, et al, into superchargers? Among other things, forcing the hand of all other charge networks to also accommodate Tesla vehicles in return (on its own, NACS, terms).

These are the 2+2 = 5 scenarios the Tesla+Ford type of deals are based on.

 

[BayouCityBob]

That is about 18 months too late for them to remain relevant. No one from any of the NACS vehicles (Ford, GM, Rivian, Polestar, Volvo, etc.) will still be using EA by 2025. After a year of access to the Supercharger network, EA will be the forgotten network that never worked well and could not get its act together.

 

[Gurule92]

Tbh, this will help ease the fears of all the Tesla ppl who were freaking out about congested superchargers

 

[cvalue13]

After a year of access to the Supercharger network, EA will be the forgotten network that never worked well and could not get its act together.

I don't think the superiority of L3 superchargers is the only frame of relevance here

Bare in mind that non-Tesla charge networks have something on the order of 10X the number charger locations / real estate.

Tesla (or Ford) owners may come to prefer and appreciate a Tesla-specific supercharging station.

But Tesla's cant and wont have supercharging stations everywhere.

For many, having NACS available in a location whatsoever is better than not having NACS available in that location.

Put differently, we're not here comparing a world of 30,000 Tesla Supercharger stations vs 30,000 Non-Tesla Supercharger stations

We're comparing a world of 30,000 Tesla Supercharger stations vs [30,000 Tesla Supercharger Stations + 50,000 non-Tesla Supercharging stations]

The latter is a better world, despite some warts, no?

 

[greggertruck]

Tbh, this will help ease the fears of all the Tesla ppl who were freaking out about congested superchargers

And those that "HatE ElOn muSk" can continue not giving him their money hahah

 

[cvalue13]

Tbh, this will help ease the fears of all the Tesla ppl who were freaking out about congested superchargers

Again: when it comes to crowding of Tesla superchargers, if you're not more worried about crowding due to the millions of new Teslas coming online in the next few years, then there's no reason to be worried about the maybe tens of thousands of non-Tesla's with NACS coming online in the next few years

For the same reasons, this seems at first impression a bigger win for Tesla owners than people appreciate

 

[CyberGus]

"I am shocked, SHOCKED that EA is following the crowd!" said no one ever

 

[BayouCityBob]

Bare in mind that non-Tesla charge networks have something on the order of 10X the number charger locations / real estate.

That is not at all even a tiny bit correct if you are talking about DC fast chargers above 120kw. When you set that very minimal criteria, the Tesla network is larger that all the other networks combined.

 

[Diehard]

What does that even mean? Each EA station will have both CCS and NACS or a Magic Doc situation? or it is either CCS or NACS? Will they have thinner cables with cooling? Or thick ones without for NACS.

 

[Crissa]

That is about 18 months too late for them to remain relevant...

...this is ridiculous. There won't be significant numbers of non-Tesla NACS on the road until then. And even so, the entire fleet of non-NACS cars (about 40% sold last year) which are about 30% of the cars on the road today.

Further, their locations will continue to exist and populate the map. That's all they need to do, because people will charge at the closest charger, no matter who it is, once they're able to. It's all about convenience.

And yeah, they need to up their reliability game if they want those federal monies.

What does that even mean? Each EA station will have both CCS and NACS or a Magic Doc situation? or it is either CCS or NACS? Will they have thinner cables with cooling? Or thick ones without for NACS.

It means they don't know yet, but that they have to do it to not get their asses sued as executives of a company.

That is not at all even a tiny bit correct if you are talking about DC fast chargers above 120kw. When you set that very minimal criteria, the Tesla network is larger that all the other networks combined.

Yes, but if your criteria is '350kW class charging' it's EA that takes the crown.

-Crissa

 

[BayouCityBob]

Yes, but if your criteria is '350kW class charging' it's EA that takes the crown.

True enough. I will predict, however, that by this time next year you will be able to say with equal confidence: "if your criteria is 500 kw class charging Tesla takes the crown."

V4 Cybertruck charging. Woo Hoo.

 

[cvalue13]

That is not at all even a tiny bit correct if you are talking about DC fast chargers above 120kw. When you set that very minimal criteria, the Tesla network is larger that all the other networks combined.

My point was about overall network footprint and number of stations, not number of ports:

Yes and I know your soundbite of "more than all others combined" is thrown around a lot, but it obscures the actual details relevant to the above conversation about expansion of network footprint. [backup provided at bottom of post]​

​

While Tesla has 60% of fast-charging ports, in the U.S, Tesla has only 24% of fast-charging stations in the U.S. The reason for this dynamic is merely that a given Tesla L3 station has more L3 ports than a given non-Tesla L3 station number of L3 ports.​

​

So it is true that Tesla has more L3 ports than "all other networks combined," but "all other networks combined" have 3X the number L3 stations.​

​

Accordingly, saying "Tesla network is larger that all the other networks combined" is only true if focused on the number of fast-charging ports, rather than the number of stations.​

​

But it's number of stations, and so network distribution and footprint, which I was discussing in my prior post. Those points are essentially unrelated to the total number of L3 ports.​

Plus, I wasn't talking only about L3 stations...​

Meanwhile, since we're on the topic, my point wasn't limited to considering only L3 stations, due to the purported cost advantages of NACS charge port installation:

Agnostic to charge speed and focused instead on total network distribution and footprint, Tesla has only 13% of all charging stations in the U.S.​

​

For years the champions of NACS infrastructure have stressed that NACS is easier, faster, and more cost-effective to install and operate than CCS. They have pointed to this as a reason why CCS networks don't have as many L3 ports.​

​

If that is true, and I think it is, then it means that these non-Tesla networks can begin deploying not only NACS L3 ports in existing L3 locations (discussed above), but also possibly the CapEx/OpEX numbers start to work such that they can deploy NACS L3 ports in what were previously capable of only L2 locations (either existing, or future locations).​

​

And if we consider only the existing L2 stations and real estate/footprint of non-Tesla networks combined: they have 46,000 total locations to Tesla's 6,600 total locations. That's 7X the location distribution/footprint/realestate.​

​

Obviously not all of those L2 locations are ripe for L3 charging, but the point should be obvious that if NACS delivers on its purported advantages, non-Tesla L3 NACS station numbers and locations could swell quickly.​

BACKUP:

​

According to the U.S. Department of Energy’s Alternative Fuels Data Center,​

• there are currently 50,000 public EV charging stations in the U.S., with a total of nearly 130,000 individual charging ports.
  • ChargePoint has over 27,000 stations with nearly 50,000 individual charging ports
    • Tesla, the next closest rival, has roughly 6,000 station locations and about 28,000 charging ports
  • The total number of charging stations includes about 44,000 Level 2 stations with over 100,000 charging ports
• The remaining 6,600 stations are DC Fast Charging stations with some 28,000 charging ports
  • Of those 6,600 L3 stations, Teslas are 1,600 L3 Supercharger stations in the U.S. (24% of all fast charging stations) with over 17,000 L3 fast-charging ports (60% of all fast-charging ports)
    • Next behind Tesla in L3 is EA (with about 800 L3 stations and 3,600 fast-charging ports), and all the other networks together make up the remaining 4,200 L3 stations and 8,000 ports.

​

Which is to say:​

• While Tesla has 60% of L3 fast-charging ports, in the U.S, it has only 24% of L3 fast-charging stations in the U.S.
• Moreover, agnostic to charge speed and focused instead on total network distribution and footprint, Tesla has only 13% of all charging stations in the U.S.

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