BREAKING: Electrify America to adopt Tesla NACS connector by 2025

[Crissa]

True enough. I will predict, however, that by this time next year you will be able to say with equal confidence: "if your criteria is 500 kw class charging Tesla takes the crown."

V4 Cybertruck charging. Woo Hoo.

Fingers crossed.

?

We're going to get a small taste of those early times when the network was narrow, to recharge at high Cybertruck speeds.

-Crissa

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[Greshnab]

Agnostic to charge speed and focused instead on total network distribution and footprint, Tesla has only 13% of all charging stations in the U.S.​

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yeahh but i am VERY self-centered and am NOT agnostic to charge speed.... ALL i care about is level 3/4 chargers; and all i REALLY care about is are there enough ports so i am never more than 100 miles from a charging station where i can recharge.. and yeahh tesla is pretty close to that now.

CCS has to acomodate for cars that have VERY limited range.. almost all tesla's now have 250+ range.. so if you put a lot of ports every 70-80 miles no one really has to wait.

I don't think very many drivers CARE if you have 15 ports at one location in a 20 square mile area or if the same area has 5 locations with 3 ports each.

 

[SolarWizard]

That is about 18 months too late for them to remain relevant. No one from any of the NACS vehicles (Ford, GM, Rivian, Polestar, Volvo, etc.) will still be using EA by 2025. After a year of access to the Supercharger network, EA will be the forgotten network that never worked well and could not get its act together.

Its not too late and it is absolutely paramount to consumer protection that lots of companies gain a bigger relative market share. Monopolies serve the average consumer extremely poorly in nearly every example

 

[BayouCityBob]

My point was about overall network footprint and number of stations, not number of ports:

Yes and I know your soundbite of "more than all others combined" is thrown around a lot, but it obscures the actual details relevant to the above conversation about expansion of network footprint. [backup provided at bottom of post]​

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This is good data but DOE (for political reasons) blends ridiculously slow "fast" chargers with actual fast chargers to boost the numbers. You are not going anywhere if you have to stop at one of Chargepoint's 60 kw chargers. Chargepoint actually has a grand total of 32 fast charging stations over 70 kw. Thirty two. The remaining 26,666 stations you cite above (not really that many) are slow chargers and 60 kw DC chargers.

Electrify America has 800 stations vs Tesla's 1,797 stations. When you add the 32 Chargepoints, and the 260 EVGO stations you are basically at the end of places you can stop when traveling cross country.

I do not disagree with your data, it is just that for political reasons we paid for a bunch of junk 60 kw chargers that are basically useless. Most of those were put into 1-2 port locations at small stores etc. When it comes to real fast charging locations it is Tesla, then EA, then EVGO, then a few bits and pieces.

 

[cvalue13]

yeahh but i am VERY self-centered and am NOT agnostic to charge speed.... ALL i care about is level 3/4 chargers; and all i REALLY care about is are there enough ports so i am never more than 100 miles from a charging station where i can recharge.. and yeahh tesla is pretty close to that now.

CCS has to acomodate for cars that have VERY limited range.. almost all tesla's now have 250+ range.. so if you put a lot of ports every 70-80 miles no one really has to wait.

I don't think very many drivers CARE if you have 15 ports at one location in a 20 square mile area or if the same area has 5 locations with 3 ports each.

sorry, i understand every word you've typed, but not the take-away

 

[Greshnab]

Its not too late and it is absolutely paramount to consumer protection that lots of companies gain a bigger relative market share. Monopolies serve the average consumer extremely poorly in nearly every example

nacs and ccs are standards for charger ports.. they are both open sourced... what monopoly are you talking about?? You can't develop a monopoly for an open sourced standard plug?!

if you mean tesla will have a monopoly of the charging LOCATIONS... nonsense they neither want to do that or are likely to achieve it. will they have a monopoly on chargers used by Tesla users well YEAHH we like FAST charging and superchargers.

Remember tesla ONLY built a charging network out of desperation.. they do NOT want to be the only charging network out there.. they just don't want to compromise a GREAT design and use a bad one. that is why they renamed their standard to be NACS and open sourced it.

 

[BayouCityBob]

Its not too late and it is absolutely paramount to consumer protection that lots of companies gain a bigger relative market share. Monopolies serve the average consumer extremely poorly in nearly every example

I agree 100% about the importance of competition. That is my point. EA does not have time to fiddle around for two years. They need to get NACS out by early 2024, and start pulling Tesla drivers in to drive traffic and utilization so they have revenue to grow quickly. They cannot possibly stay relevant if they wait that long.

Their entire business model was predicated on the (wrong) notion that they had a captive market of every non-Tesla vehicle. They just discovered that was not true. Now they are in a race to get relevant and grow fast. They seem to still be under the misconception that they have time and a captive market.

 

[Greshnab]

sorry, i understand every word you've typed, but not the take-away

The take away is that while you are technically correct and yes tesla isn't the largest network by locations ports or other methods.. for the parts that matter to the crowd on here.. IE where can i RAPIDLY charge my tesla ... tesla is almost the only game in town!

I get that you are worried about others.. and that in reality there are a LOT more options that aren't tesla supported.. .however i don't care about those 8)

 

[cvalue13]

I do not disagree with your data, it is just that for political reasons we paid for a bunch of junk 60 kw chargers that are basically useless. Most of those were put into 1-2 port locations at small stores etc. When it comes to real fast charging locations it is Tesla, then EA, then EVGO, then a few bits and pieces.

Sure, and I don't intend to overstate

But if NACS is the lift to affordable fast charging it purports to be, then these other companies have both (A) existing real estate, and (B) future real estate, that becomes more cost-viable for including faster charging by either retrofitting or in modeling future expansion plans.

And as I understand it, Tesla agrees that the primary cost/functional barrier to their expansion of supercharging is the availability and cost of real estate (whether in fee or in lease).

Tesla will in any event be off doing its thing regarding it's own real estate and network expansion.

This deal just means that (increasingly) others in addition to Tesla, can consider the inclusion of the cost efficiencies of NACS charging, both in retrofitting existing locations, and in any future modeling of expansion plans.

I dunno, seems a good thing to me. Can dumbies ruin a good plan? Of course.

 

[Huntsman]

Reminds me of Beta versus VHS, North America settled on VHS and the rest of the world went with Beta. Now, they are both among the dinosaurs.

 

[cvalue13]

IE where can i RAPIDLY charge my tesla ... tesla is almost the only game in town!

but isn't this discussion exactly not about the current state of affairs, but instead what these changes could mean for the future state of affairs?

regarding the future state of affairs, i could dream up a rather scathing and apocalyptic version of how things go

i was in this instance instead dreaming up the other version

 

[cvalue13]

nacs and ccs are standards for charger ports.. they are both open sourced... what monopoly are you talking about?? You can't develop a monopoly for an open sourced standard plug?!

i could be mistaken here, but seems there's a distinction to be made between the connector piece vs the charging technology behind it

maybe someone could help clarify *what* exactly has been "open sourced" by Tesla

because my understadning to date (which is maybe incorrect), is that the patents for the connectors are released

not that they have given people the specs needed to building a supercharger in whole, from scratch

EDIT TO ADD: quick google results suggest it's the patent for the connector design only, opened 7 months ago

 

[Greshnab]

but isn't this discussion exactly not about the current state of affairs, but instead what these changes could mean for the future state of affairs?

regarding the future state of affairs, i could dream up a rather scathing and apocalyptic version of how things go

i was in this instance instead dreaming up the other version

for me.. it will be going to the same extreme.. again i am very self centered... for NON-Tesla owners.. it means that the existing ccs charging stations have a chance of surviving and there is a good chance that cars with small ranges and low charging rates may have a place to charge in the future...

but honestly for those with l3 capability why would any of them stop at an l2 charger if they had an option.

keep in mind when thinking furture state though there is a LOT of money coming onto the table SOON for chargers.

Walmart is going to either build or host chargers at walmarts and sams clubs across america...
Buckee's is building stores that host charging networks in their chains..

both of those will hopefully move to a lot of nacs standard chargers but NOT built by tesla I suspect <they do have an api for that after all>

add to that future every c store in america... for a long time gas was required for a c store to exist but NOT a profit point.. c stores tried to break even and make money off customer purchases in the stores... in the 90's with the focus of money transactions moving away from cash and towards pay at the pump C stores started easing the price of gas up so it again became a large profit center for them.

Gas pumps and tanks are VERY expensive to maintain and build out. As america moves towards electric cars every c store will have to modify their business model away from relying on gas sales and find a new way to get drivers into their stores <i suspect STRONGLY this will be super chargers>

so in short in the next 10-15 years there won't be millions of dollars of investment into charging there will be BILLIONS .. tesla can't possibly rule that market and honestly they don't want to.


ok sorry i got a lil carried away. off my soapbox.

 

[Greshnab]

i could be mistaken here, but seems there's a distinction to be made between the connector piece vs the charging technology behind it

maybe someone could help clarify *what* exactly has been "open sourced" by Tesla

because my understadning to date (which is maybe incorrect), is that the patents for the connectors are released

not that they have given people the specs needed to building a supercharger in whole, from scratch

that is 100% correct they have released the specs for how you wire it.. NOT how they build their controllers or programs to keep track of what is available where. Tesla's job was to build a standard that would work for a long time.. and make sure everyone could build TO that standard they have done that. it is not in their interest nor their requirement to give people fish now that they have shown em HOW to fish.

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