Cybertruck Range: Losing the Story

[xl3wulf]

Going along with a lot of these decisions/interpretations/discussions of range, coincidently today I made a tough decision that is right for me…at least I believe.

So, I’ve been contemplating this for a little bit and decided to go to the Boise Tesla Store and reconfigure my order. They were all extremely helpful, kind/friendly, and not bothered by my indecisiveness. They are a pretty great team. We talked through my thoughts, and they easily updated my order once I cemented my decision.


What I came down to is that although my “want” of the Beast version was strong, it was lacking in practicality of my desires (range, which I will explain). I can’t afford to add another 16K for the range extender to the Beast, but I can afford to put it on the AWD Dual-Motor and it still be less money.

I have a few reasons for this thought process but one of the main reasons was I wanted to use my truck as a truck to go disappear in the mountains and have fun (camping/backpacking/hiking/off-road) without it having to sit in my garage while I take a different vehicle. Sometimes I have to swap out my current Tesla because of this. My preferred locations are not comfortably in range of real-world mountain driving range due to lack of charging stations. My highway speeds are also 80mph that connect my locations and obviously that’s too inefficient (freaking physics always getting in the way). I am also one of those that would like to tow my camper reasonably well and whatever I can do to give me a few more miles to be comfortable, is good for me mentally. So, for me (my desires, needs and induvial situation/circumstances) I need more available milage and as built, which may be good enough for others, it isn’t for me. So, the only solution (save waiting even longer) to my desire of having this truck after waiting years (including following the rumors before the 2019 launch) was to sacrifice the sick acceleration and ungodly torque for still very respectable truck numbers.


Yeah, I’ll probably cry (like the trade in offer that they gave me for my current Tesla) about it later, but…

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[Woodrick]

Crawling along mountain roads are twenty and you will get range out your ears that a similar ICE powered truck will be crying about getting back to the gas station.



-Crissa

I so love watching my range on the Energy Graphs on a 15 minute average go to over 999 miles when going down the hill.

 

[GuyV]

Yes, but since it was determined that few people would want it (i.e. need and pay for it) the decision was to stay with the standard 330 mile range that the Model 3 and Y have and to use a batter extender for those willing to pay for more.

The battery extender would be worthwhile if it didn't take up a third of the bed.

 

[alextheukrainian]

This is a troll post full of lies. M3 LR battery is equivalent to a few gallons of gas tank? I loled so hard.

People charge to 70% or less to avoid degrading battery? Wtffff did u pull that out of your arse? I charged to 90% for three years with zero issues. 80% is as low as u wanna go but also still on paranoid side.

Battery life wasn't ever an issue on my Tesla. While wanting more range is fine, who doesn't want 1,000 mi range without compromises in some magic madeup world, you're looking mighty smart posting utterly madeup bs.

ahahha wtf how is this allowed by the mods. Delete this FUD from a tslaq member

 

[GuyV]

So both of your conditions are within normal. The grand touring is a normal model, not even their flagship trim, and a solid 400 miles of highway range at 70-80mph (where I live we get speeding tickets over 80 anyways) is fantastic. What Tesla promises for the model s (drive from sfbay to LA on one charge) is an easy reality in the lucid, without hyperlinking like you’d have to do in the model s. Also, that promised 500 miles of cybertruck range was what I was hoping would equate to a real world 350-400 on the highway, at 70-80mph like the lucid can do.

Except of the Cybertruck is versatile and tough pickup truck.

 

[HaulingAss]

Don’t see how, they filled the allotted space already. At this point it’s either an increase in range due to improved chemistry/manufacturing, or adding batteries in that storage bin at the rear, possibly offering a version without a vault cover and filling that with batteries and letting us use a manual tonneau cover to keep the range.

Getting rid of the motorized tonneau cover for more range is a big fat "no" from me. The enclosed vault is what makes the Cybertruck such a game-changer compared to regular trucks. For most trips the extra range would add zero additional utility, even on a 3000 mile cross-country trip, a 500 mile EPA range Cybertruck would only save about 30-40 minutes. And in daily use I'm going to be leaving home with plenty of range to spare anyway.

What a lot of people are forgetting when they claim Tesla let us all down on the range is that only a minority of reservations were for the 500-mile Tri-motor version and the Dual Motor that most of us ordered exceeds the announced EPA range of 300+ miles by 40 miles.

Tesla can take away the locking, motorized toneau cover that gets taller towards the cabin from my cold, dead hands. ?

 

[HaulingAss]

The battery extender would be worthwhile if it didn't take up a third of the bed.

And if it didn't add an additional payload of 800 lbs. whether you needed it or not. That's like bringing four big friends with you wherever you go. Only if you actually want to bring those four big friends, it's on top of that!

 

[Crissa]

This is a troll post full of lies. M3 LR battery is equivalent to a few gallons of gas tank? I loled so hard.

Sorry, but it's true. There's about 33kWh in a gallon of gasoline.

Electric motors are just super efficient and gasoline ones aren't.

-Crissa

 

[Woodrick]

Getting rid of the motorized tonneau cover for more range is a big fat "no" from me. The enclosed vault is what makes the Cybertruck such a game-changer compared to regular trucks. For most trips the extra range would add zero additional utility, even on a 3000 mile cross-country trip, a 500 mile EPA range Cybertruck would only save about 30-40 minutes. And in daily use I'm going to be leaving home with plenty of range to spare anyway.

What a lot of people are forgetting when they claim Tesla let us all down on the range is that only a minority of reservations were for the 500-mile Tri-motor version and the Dual Motor that most of us ordered exceeds the announced EPA range of 300+ miles by 40 miles.

Tesla can take away the locking, motorized toneau cover that gets taller towards the cabin from my cold, dead hands. ?

I think that it is quite interesting how many experts there are out there that have never driven a Tesla and have no idea how much range is needed. Just the usual naysayers.

"EVs will never work"

Tesla Model Y #1 selling car this year, ahead of the Camry.

 

[alextheukrainian]

Sorry, but it's true. There's about 33kWh in a gallon of gasoline.

Electric motors are just super efficient and gasoline ones aren't.

And 1 atom contains mc2 worth of energy, all human tools are just super inefficient in extracting it. That must be proof that gasoline vehicles absolutely suck b/c wow they can't even extract 1/100th of that. Wowowow.

Very relevant and absolutely not a troll angle for a conversation ? My original point stands: TSLAQ post full of idiotic lies that should be erased.

 

[Woodrick]

Going along with a lot of these decisions/interpretations/discussions of range, coincidently today I made a tough decision that is right for me…at least I believe.

So, I’ve been contemplating this for a little bit and decided to go to the Boise Tesla Store and reconfigure my order. They were all extremely helpful, kind/friendly, and not bothered by my indecisiveness. They are a pretty great team. We talked through my thoughts, and they easily updated my order once I cemented my decision.


What I came down to is that although my “want” of the Beast version was strong, it was lacking in practicality of my desires (range, which I will explain). I can’t afford to add another 16K for the range extender to the Beast, but I can afford to put it on the AWD Dual-Motor and it still be less money.



Yeah, I’ll probably cry (like the trade in offer that they gave me for my current Tesla) about it later, but…

I think that you made a good decision. Unless you are on the tracks during the weekend or doing serious off-roading, the Beast is just a way to use up extra money that you have laying around. I don't really have any.

You will probably be better off investing in a number or solar cells so that while at camp for a few days, you can bring the range back up a little.

Since I believe that you are a Tesla owner, you are probably familiar with PlugShare.com and realize that there are many other opportunities to charge at than jet Superchargers. But yeah, the mountains of Idaho can get a little far away from infrastructure.

 

[HaulingAss]

Since I believe that you are a Tesla owner, you are probably familiar with PlugShare.com and realize that there are many other opportunities to charge at than jet Superchargers.

My wife and I have been Tesla owners for almost 6 years and, no, we are not familiar with plugshare, we use Superchargers exclusively. We tried third party charging a couple of times initially but never got one to work and we quickly learned life is too short to mess around with unreliable chargers.

 

[anionic1]

My first job out of high school was at the local hobby shop. RC cars and planes etc. I have always been mechanical so it was super fun. Lithium batteries and brushless motors were early in their adoption in the RC world but they were quickly showing how electric RC stuff was becoming as cool as gas. I stuck with the gas stuff. That blue burning methanol fuel. My best friend was all electric. We spent most of every pay check on our RC stuff. We liked our off road trucks the most. We would go find an empty field and he would plug in his batteries and within seconds he would be tearing up the field in a could of dust and I would be filling up the gas tank, trying method number 20 on the best way to start the gas RC because someone was always coming out with a new and improved way to start the gas RC cars that was easier than a pull string. Then I would need to leave the lid off the RC so I could mess with the fuel trim ratios and possibly the idle. Then after 15 min it would be dialed in and I could go test it up. But by then he was usually on his second battery and now only had one more charged battery. So in about 30 more minutes he was done and I was just refilling my RC gas tank and ready to go another hour of fun but by then he was out of batteries. This was the 90s so we didn’t have all sorts of cool charging options and he only had the batteries he charged that he brought from home. But I had a gallon of fuel.
Well after a few years and new jobs and college we went our separate ways. I put the RC stuff in a box and gave some away. But after about 12 years I got out that gas RC truck and replaced the filter and the cheap servo battery and got that 12 year old bottle of gas out and the truck fired up. My buddy would have to buy a bunch of new batteries if he even still kept his truck.
Anyway, that long story comes to mind every time this EV range topic comes back up. It’s energy and the conversion of it. Both have pros and cons and everyone has to pick what’s important to me. For me it’s most important that I show my kids that I tried to make a change that’s better for the environment and slows global warming. I don’t like sacrificing range but if I have to then so be it. Now I just need that affordable CT to come around!

 

[Cyberostachu]

On reveal night, four years ago, it was the 500 mile range of the Tri-Motor trim that stuck in my mind more than anything else.

We don’t know what we don’t know, though. And sometimes something that seems imminently clear… turns out anything but.

Fast forward those four years. Cybertrucks are now finally rolling out of Austin. And here is my stake-in-the-ground: Lots of people are going to be complaining about the range they experience.

Not because they’re towing things. Not because they’re hauling stuff. And not because the truck Tesla finally shipped ended up rated at 300 miles and change instead of the 500 miles that was originally expected.

Even had Tesla hit that bogey, people would be unhappy. Because most people – even longtime EV owners – continue to look at EV range through the prism of their lifelong ICE experience.

There are a hat trick of things going on. First, drivers don’t usually appreciate the vast difference in fuel stores between ICE cars and their EV counterparts.

One gallon of gas is approximately 121,000,000 joules; and is equivalent to around 33.6 kWh.

Here’s a quick chart of the fuel capacities of several sample ICE trims, and what would be the equivalent energy in an EV.

Note the extraordinary kWh capacities necessary to match up with what we think of as run-of-the-mill, common-as-can-be vehicles. It underlines how grossly inefficient ICE cars are. The Raptor is just nuts.

It’s even more revealing when you turn it around and look at it from the EV perspective.

Imagine if your ICE family sedan had a 2.5 gallon gas tank. When I go out later this morning and climb into my Model 3, that’s essentially what I’m doing. It underlines how little fuel a Tesla Model 3 or Model Y carries onboard, compared to a similar ICE vehicle. It emphasizes how much more efficient an EV is.

There’s a “But,” though.

All vehicles - ICE or EV - are affected by things like temperature, altitude, and speed. And yet the EV world is inundated with complaints of range falling off as the calendar rolls into winter. Or when a drive involves a long slog on the interstate at speed. Or when a trip sends one up into the mountains.

While ICE drivers rarely give a thought to any of those things.

Lithium EV chemistries certainly have some issues that need to be managed in cold weather. I’m not saying they don’t.

But much of the effect of those kinds of things in the ICE world is hidden within the cavernous supply of fuel that they carry.

Lose ten percent efficiency in an ICE car because you’ve entered a slight uphill grade and it’s lost in the noise. Lose ten percent in an EV, with its tiny fuel supply and parsimonious allocation of energy, and it’s immediately obvious.

I’m reminded of the scene from Apollo 13 when Ken Mattingly, down on the ground, struggles to find a way to power up the Command Module of the ailing spacecraft with the tiny amount of power available in the Lunar Module’s batteries.

How we use our batteries is sometimes a very big deal.



The second thing, the next reason many people will be unhappy with the range they see in their new Cybertruck, is because full in the ICE world is a little bit different than full in the EV world.

Both worlds require some buffer on the low end, in order to find that next gas station or DC fast charger.

But whereas the ICE world habitually fills their tank all the way when they stop, that’s rarely the case in the EV world. Lithium batteries don’t like full charge because it accelerates pack degradation. So those of us who care about such things tend to back away from full charge some amount – 80% or 70% or, for some of us, even more – unless we’re on a road trip or some other situation that absolutely demands 100% SOC.

That promised 320 miles of range can quickly turn into 250 or 270 before we’ve driven the first mile. And that’s with a brand new pack, before any degradation has occurred.



The last reason for range frustration is because of something most people never give a thought to – themselves.

A lot of people look at rated range, fail to ever hit it, and then just squint hard at their vehicle, shaking their head. Muttering something about Elon once again promising something he never delivered.

Well, no.

Most drivers have pretty close to zero appreciation for how much energy it costs pulling away from a traffic light. Or how much is thrown away every time they tap the brakes.

They have not once, during their entire driving life, ever given a thought to momentum or what the benefit of conserving it might be.

They drive their EV exactly like they’ve always driven their ICE car. They press on the throttle to make it go. They press on the brake to make it stop.

And because that ICE car always had such a glorious extravagance of energy carried onboard, they never learned not to waste it.

Even in a car – such as a Tesla – that has the real-time telemetry for such things, they’ve never once contemplated the actual kilowatts of power their rear motor is putting out. Or where the threshold is for when the motor on their front axle engages.

They see the green line on their screen stretch out like a rubber band when they come off the throttle and their car begins regen braking. But they have no idea how much energy got sent back into the pack.

I won’t belabor this. Discussing how to optimize EV driving efficiency is a story for another time. For now, I’ll just say that an EV driver complaining because the “real world” range of their vehicle never approaches its rated range… is probably not seeing the whole picture.

Speaking of that rated range thing. Wouldn’t it be nice if we had an objective, unbiased third-party from whom we could get “real world” numbers?

Turns out we do. It’s called the EPA. They designed the test suite from which rated range emerges. Not Tesla.

The second chart above has the watt-hours/mile needed to hit the vehicle’s rated range, written in red. For the Cybertruck, we’ll be wanting to hit right around 384 in order to make that 320-mile bogey.

Some of us expect to.

You wrote the most comprehensive explanation of EV vs ICE. However, when I first got my M3, there was a tremendous discrepancy between epa rating and real world rating that even people in tesla cannot explain satisfactorily. I think most of the first time owners of EV had some basic understanding of science but they, me included, were not educated about this. Part of it I think is not to discourage first time buyers to venture in owning these type of cars.

 

[DWTango]

My first job out of high school was at the local hobby shop. RC cars and planes etc. I have always been mechanical so it was super fun. Lithium batteries and brushless motors were early in their adoption in the RC world but they were quickly showing how electric RC stuff was becoming as cool as gas. I stuck with the gas stuff. That blue burning methanol fuel. My best friend was all electric. We spent most of every pay check on our RC stuff. We liked our off road trucks the most. We would go find an empty field and he would plug in his batteries and within seconds he would be tearing up the field in a could of dust and I would be filling up the gas tank, trying method number 20 on the best way to start the gas RC because someone was always coming out with a new and improved way to start the gas RC cars that was easier than a pull string. Then I would need to leave the lid off the RC so I could mess with the fuel trim ratios and possibly the idle. Then after 15 min it would be dialed in and I could go test it up. But by then he was usually on his second battery and now only had one more charged battery. So in about 30 more minutes he was done and I was just refilling my RC gas tank and ready to go another hour of fun but by then he was out of batteries. This was the 90s so we didn’t have all sorts of cool charging options and he only had the batteries he charged that he brought from home. But I had a gallon of fuel.
Well after a few years and new jobs and college we went our separate ways. I put the RC stuff in a box and gave some away. But after about 12 years I got out that gas RC truck and replaced the filter and the cheap servo battery and got that 12 year old bottle of gas out and the truck fired up. My buddy would have to buy a bunch of new batteries if he even still kept his truck.
Anyway, that long story comes to mind every time this EV range topic comes back up. It’s energy and the conversion of it. Both have pros and cons and everyone has to pick what’s important to me. For me it’s most important that I show my kids that I tried to make a change that’s better for the environment and slows global warming. I don’t like sacrificing range but if I have to then so be it. Now I just need that affordable CT to come around!

Makes me wonder what the cost to replace the batteries in the CT will eventually be. I keep the ICE vehicles I buy for ten plus years and with the CT being virtually indestructible I would think I would keep it thru a couple battery replacements. ? Buying the range extender would seem to about double the cost of replacement. ?

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