4680 cell improvements by 10-20%

[PilotPete]

Wait a year if you can.

I'm afraid I don't have a choice!

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[Rutrow]

Rob Mauer, channeling The Limiting Factor, indicated there was some confusion as to whether the 10-20% increase was cell density? or production rate?

Big difference.

 

[PilotPete]

Rob Mauer, channeling The Limiting Factor, indicated there was some confusion as to whether the 10-20% increase was cell density? or production rate?

Big difference.

As I have read, they are looking at a few things. First is the chemistry make up of the cells. By that, it is the ratio of the elements, not a change to the elements. For that, they have two new formulas. Then, they're looking at changing the ratio of what is on the front v what is on the back. Right now, it is 50/50. I don't recall what they were looking at going to, but is was very asymmetric. So in the end, they are looking at upwards to a 20% (maybe just over) increase in the cell power density. I.e., more juice in each battery.

 

[Rutrow]

As I have read, they are looking at a few things. First is the chemistry make up of the cells. By that, it is the ratio of the elements, not a change to the elements. For that, they have two new formulas. Then, they're looking at changing the ratio of what is on the front v what is on the back. Right now, it is 50/50. I don't recall what they were looking at going to, but is was very asymmetric. So in the end, they are looking at upwards to a 20% (maybe just over) increase in the cell power density. I.e., more juice in each battery.

But, the majority of what Jordan was talking about regarding the chemistry change and the PDO additive was how it increases cycle life. The patents he was talking about were about how to save cost and time in the production of the PDO.

The physical change to the jellyroll was an asymmetric coating on the foils and referred to a "thicker coating on one side". If that's the advance, it could reduce the density of the batteries. If it was a change that increased the density, I would have said using a "thinner coating on one side". Both of those things could mean the same thing, but if I were touting an improvement I'd choose the wording that sounded more promising. ??

 

[kpanda17]

Seems with all of the chatter and insider leaks, we can expect +10% later this year
And then +10% next year
With the EPA mandated range changes to S3XYs, Tesla knew this was coming and the CTs current numbers are in current EPA alignment
So no new bad surprises

Only good news
mid late 2024 CT AWD 370-380, TM 330
2025 AWD 410-420 TM 370

 

[REM]

But, the majority of what Jordan was talking about regarding the chemistry change and the PDO additive was how it increases cycle life. The patents he was talking about were about how to save cost and time in the production of the PDO.

The physical change to the jellyroll was an asymmetric coating on the foils and referred to a "thicker coating on one side". If that's the advance, it could reduce the density of the batteries. If it was a change that increased the density, I would have said using a "thinner coating on one side". Both of those things could mean the same thing, but if I were touting an improvement I'd choose the wording that sounded more promising. ??

The chatter I've been reading about the asymmetrical jellyroll is one of the more interesting things I've heard in quite a few weeks.

Part of me hopes that the dev line produced an iteration so groundbreaking that they pushed back the entire ramp up schedule to bring it in at the last second and give us that range we are missing out on.

How much of a rally would that be for the whole company lol!

 

[Darth abbott]

Seems with all of the chatter and insider leaks, we can expect +10% later this year
And then +10% next year
With the EPA mandated range changes to S3XYs, Tesla knew this was coming and the CTs current numbers are in current EPA alignment
So no new bad surprises

Only good news
mid late 2024 CT AWD 370-380, TM 330
2025 AWD 410-420 TM 370

It's not good news if you get a foundation in a couple months lol ?

 

[MyKidCouldDrawThat]

Now Tesla could just use less cells than and keep the range the same but let's say they give us the gains.

Let's not, because they don't do that kind of thing. It's been shown over and over. The only gains they will give you is non tangible (code)

 

[charliemagpie]

Considering Austin is gearing from 1 battery production line to soon 4, and then 8, 10% to 20% production increase isn't anything to write home about.

But density, on the other hand, is worth talking about.

 

[Rusty Shackleford]

Normally I'd expect Tesla to use that energy density increase as an excuse to put less batteries in but the range is so anemic for a truck it seems like they would have to increase range.

I think V2H makes shrinking the battery a less palatable option. Shrinking the pack by 20% would significantly undermine that selling point.

 

[Tedacules]

Rumor is that Tesla is finalizing a new cell format which has 10-20% more energy density. If true the cybertrucks battery would have a pretty good gain in range. With the same amount of cells. Now Tesla could just use less cells than and keep the range the same but let's say they give us the gains. My question is would you wait say 3-6 more months for a 10-20% increase in energy out of your battery?

My number is 119 so I'm waiting 5+ years.

 

[Cyberman]

Rumor is that Tesla is finalizing a new cell format which has 10-20% more energy density. If true the cybertrucks battery would have a pretty good gain in range. With the same amount of cells. Now Tesla could just use less cells than and keep the range the same but let's say they give us the gains. My question is would you wait say 3-6 more months for a 10-20% increase in energy out of your battery?

Fucks to the yeah.

 

[Billyboy]

Rumor is that Tesla is finalizing a new cell format which has 10-20% more energy density. If true the cybertrucks battery would have a pretty good gain in range. With the same amount of cells. Now Tesla could just use less cells than and keep the range the same but let's say they give us the gains. My question is would you wait say 3-6 more months for a 10-20% increase in energy out of your battery?

 

[Billyboy]

My number is 119 so I'm waiting 5+ years.

Yes

 

[Tinker71]

Supposedly CATL new Shenxing battery pack has a pack level density of 205 Wh/Kg vs the CT 170. Plus 10 minute 10-80% changing. Using straight ratio maths this would translate to 410 miles of range for the CT dual motor. As I do the math adding 20% (optimistic) to the current CT pack get us 408.

I can't say how excited I was to see how the CT pack is attached. Battery swaps are very doable. It really comes down to economics. IDK if the Shenxing tech is adaptable, but eventually there will be several 100,000 CT in operation and someone will make a replacement pack. The more CT on the road with the same pack interface the greater the incentive to build a new pack.

The naysayers will say Tesla will not allow this....they may be right, but fierce competition from BYD Shark and other EV is going to force Tesla to improve the range and lower cost to stay relevant.

Great times for EVs.

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