10,000+ Miles Driving a Cybertruck – Things learned: range, great sound and full love/hate list after 10k miles

[HaulingAss]

He preconditioned the battery and it was really not even that cold outside 15F is cold not 46F.

The impact of temperature on range is not a step-change function, it's a sliding scale. Air becomes gradually denser as the temperature drops.

The test in question was not performed at 46 degrees F, by the time the battery had reached 1% SOC the outside temperature was only 39 degrees F. The air become denser throughout the test.

The problem here is that people are comparing the results of this test with those of other EV trucks in warmer weather and at higher altitudes. That's not how it's done if you want a meaningful comparison. The roads weren't even the same.

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[HaulingAss]

we saw the battery new hire last year due to the 4680 development progression being behind schedule, the CTs currently have gen 2
feel that 4680 development ran in parallel to the CT development, a lot of new all around
CT will be remarkably better with range but potentially will take another 18 months for the full gen 3 4680 dev to complete

for range, what do we have to compare it to? Rivian real range? Lightening real range?
both have been around for 24 months, where will the CT range be in 24 months?

At the 2020 Battery Day presentation Tesla laid out a six year plan for battery development. That would be 2026. How do you figure that development of 4680 is behind schedule?

 

[HaulingAss]

I see no reason to charge at higher than 24 amps as that is enough current to fully charge the car overnight. There's no reason to charge any faster at home in my opinion. In fact a slower rate is better for battery longevity.

What do you base your opinion on that charging at 48 amps leads to reduced battery longevity?

I think in most climates having 48 amps available helps keep battery temperatures in a more favorable range and leads to better longevity. It's not hard on a battery to take 6-8 hours to charge it (which is what 48 amps will do 0-100% in most EVS). That's considered very slow charging at the cell level.

 

[BannedByTMC]

4) They could have fixed it but didn't

This makes no sense. If they could have increased range in a cost effective manner they would have. Seems obvious that the 4680 density is not improving as quickly as hoped. The "range extender" monstrosity which still doesn't hit 500 miles is proof of this, they can't even fit 470 miles of pack inside the vehicle.

 

[HaulingAss]

@HaulingAss how do the chargers talk to each other? Do they have to be hooked up to the same 240V breaker to figure out the respective load, or is there some sort of wifi setup? For years I have used a mobile connector plugged into a 240 outlet, and I am thinking of converting it to a wall connector.

The Gen 2 Wall Connectors use low voltage wires between the two units for communication. I don't know if Gen 3 still uses communication wires or if they went wireless. The manuals on available online. They are usually installed on the same breaker, but I don't see why they couldn't be on their own breakers, although that would seem to defeat most of the purpose of load sharing to begin with.

 

[XCeilidhX]

Let's not add an older Model S to the equation. They had earlier battery chemistries and unless made after the Model 3 introduction 2017/2018, the batteries had some issues.
But after the Model 3 introduction, the batteries on all of the cars have been much better. Sure, there will be some issues, everything has some issues, but they aren't significant.

My wife has a model 3 and just eyeballing the max range reduction over time I would say it’s losing about the same as a % of the original total over time as my original battery pack in my Model S.

My advice after a total of 17 years (11 for the Model S and 6 for the Model 3) of Tesla BEV ownership is that people should probably plan on a possible need for replacement of the battery pack at or after the decade mark of owning the vehicle so as a precaution people may want to save money in an account for a rainy day fund in case it fails or gets to a point where the range reduction has become unacceptable but we drive ours a lot of miles compared to others it would seem (which makes me glad we power them 100% with solar to be green as an aside). I can only speak from my own experience but that is it.

I do wonder what will happen as third parties or even Tesla themselves attempt to get involved with whatever port the range extender battery plugs into for the CT though and create new options. I could envision trailers with batteries that extend your towing range and haul your stuff, for instance, without taking up space in the bed. Things could get interesting in that regard and could also increase the CT/CB’s utility as a power wall replacement as well.

Not sure if/when the battery in our Model 3 will die entirely but the max range has degraded a noticeable amount. Not enough to bother us at all on a day to day basis but it will add extra charging stops on long road trips for sure as a result.

Again though, YMMV. I’m not a Tesla naysayer and I am dying for them to open up the orders for non-foundation CBs (I wake up and check first thing every morning to see if I can place my order yet) so it certainly doesn’t change my enthusiasm but as far as huge improvements in degradation I don’t really see it. Efficiency, probably but that doesn’t really come through as something I can sense as the driver unless we are talking original purchase cost or weight of the pack translating to acceleration improvements as my reference points. Reliability for us remains to be seen for my MS replacement pack and our M3’s original pack… but there has been capacity degradation for sure with all 3 of the batteries we have had in our BEVs. We charge to full rarely when we need to for long trips (which are few and far between) and mostly use the cars as our daily drivers. I’ll say that the newest of the 3 batteries seems to have the least degradation so far though so things are improving with each iteration, anecdotally.

FWIW

Cheers

 

[BannedByTMC]

I could envision trailers with batteries that extend your towing range and haul your stuff, for instance, without taking up space in the bed.

This guy built one using a Model S 85kWh pack. Also works as a giant Powerwall.

 

[XCeilidhX]

The Gen 2 Wall Connectors use low voltage wires between the two units for communication. I don't know if Gen 3 still uses communication wires or if they went wireless. The manuals on available online. They are usually installed on the same breaker, but I don't see why they couldn't be on their own breakers, although that would seem to defeat most of the purpose of load sharing to begin with.

We didn’t put ours on the same breaker so that if we both needed to charge quickly to add range due to a power outage overnight or last minute range to haul ass in an evacuation emergency we wouldn’t be limited in that regard so my take is that if you live somewhere where forest fires, earthquakes, or hurricanes are a thing or have frequent power outages from storms this may need to be a factor in your equation but it also would then matter to what level of charge you take your BEVs to on a day to day basis as that will have more of an impact in an emergency than what you can add last minute before you go, and it also depends on how much lead time you get to prepare before the bug out hour. Hurricanes usually get significant lead time in that but forest fires and earthquakes clearly can hit suddenly so not much time to add extra juice before leaving. We have had storms that knocked out power overnight and disallowed charging our cars as a result and then have had to try and top off whatever was in each of our batteries when the power came back on in a rush on several occasions, though. We have also been evacuated on several occasions for fires and were always glad to grab some last minute range additions just in case while we gathered our essentials before we hit the road.

Just food for thought.

 

[VDR]

The air become denser throughout the test.

The problem here is that people are comparing the results of this test with those of other EV trucks in warmer weather and at higher altitudes. That's not how it's done if you want a meaningful comparison.

As it did with the Rivian test.

Agreed, in all fairness it needs to be done side by side.
We will see, the CT may get similar efficiency but will not go as far due to smaller pack & higher Cd.
It will fit the needs of most just not ideal for road trips and/or 100+ mile tow trips.

 

[Gigahorse]

As it did with the Rivian test.

Agreed, in all fairness it needs to be done side by side.
We will see the CT may get similar efficiency but will not go as far due to smaller pack & higher Cd.
It will fit the needs of most just not ideal for road trips and/or 100+ mile tow rig.

Agree that a side by side test would be nice, but becoming evident that the range on the CT is in the low 200s and towing over 100miles like you said will not be realistic.

 

[Woodrick]

There certainly are some weird opinions around here. If I understand correctly, you aren't allowed to criticize the range, unless you actually ordered a cyberbeast? Quite a remarkable take on things. When announced, cyberbeast was said to be $69990, and FSD was $7000. The mental gymnastics required to say "oh, you only ordered an AWD for 80k (or 100k for foundation), therefore you don't get to criticize the range" are olympic level.

I originally ordered a tri motor with FSD, for $77000. You can say this and that about inflation (and real inflation is quite high), but do you actually understand? Even if you go by real inflation (rather than the calculation they switched to in the 80s), a beast with FSD should be $96250. Okay we're pretty close to that, right? well, no. Because to get the beast you thought you were ordering in 2019, just assuming that we count the 450 mile extended range beast as "the same", you can order a beast for delivery late this year without the extended pack, and then buy the extended pack, for a total of $136000, pre tax. If you want to shave down your options to try to save a little money, it will come eventually.

So, it should not be a stretch for literally anyone to imagine that people who ordered beast for 69990 expecting 500+ miles built in, are instead taking awd models, which have a longer range than the beast, and cost more than the original tri motor tier. People who ended up buying AWD today are allowed to be annoyed that the original tri motor specs were not delivered. The gatekeeping to say that if you didn't spend the extra 20k on a beast today, you aren't allowed to have an opinion about the range... is pretty absurd, and pretentious.

Okay, we get it. you are not happy. Tesla didn't meet the range that they intended with the tri-motor. The prices went up. They missed some more things.

Ok, those are a given, nothing we can do can change any of that.

Can we get to the next subject and not have every thread hijacked about the range?
It is what it is, if it doesn't work for you, then okay.

 

[Woodrick]

What do you base your opinion on that charging at 48 amps leads to reduced battery longevity?

I think in most climates having 48 amps available helps keep battery temperatures in a more favorable range and leads to better longevity. It's not hard on a battery to take 6-8 hours to charge it (which is what 48 amps will do 0-100% in most EVS). That's considered very slow charging at the cell level.

While there is a rumor of wisdom that 32A charging is better on the batteries than 48A, the reality is, and has been backup by Tesla engineers, that 48A charging is so far below the 1C rate of the battery that is just about considered a trickle charge.

And of course, there's the recent testing that indicated that Supercharger charging has no impact on the health of the battery as well.

And then there's the Model Ss with the most range, that Supercharger multiple times a day.

 

[Woodrick]

Not sure if/when the battery in our Model 3 will die entirely but the max range has degraded a noticeable amount. Not enough to bother us at all on a day to day basis but it will add extra charging stops on long road trips for sure as a result.


Cheers

It is pretty much a given that a battery will degrade it's generally based on the number of cycles and the age of the battery. You can expect that after a year or so, that the battery will make it's first drop, somewhere around 10%. But it will then stay at that level for pretty much the remainder of their life.
Tesla engineers, a year or so ago, did analysis on the Model 3 batteries and it they were still on target for 300,000 miles.
Newer batteries are headed for 1,000,000 miles.

 

[bwhntr78]

The Gen 2 Wall Connectors use low voltage wires between the two units for communication. I don't know if Gen 3 still uses communication wires or if they went wireless. The manuals on available online. They are usually installed on the same breaker, but I don't see why they couldn't be on their own breakers, although that would seem to defeat most of the purpose of load sharing to begin with.

Gen 3 require separate breakers, and they communicate wirelessly to share load. A big use case for this is if your main panel has limited capacity and/or is a significant distance from where you will be charging. For example, I have a 50A breaker on the main panel in my basement which feeds a sub-panel in my garage. That sub-panel has 2 - 50A breakers that feed each of my 2 wall connectors. If I have one car plugged in, it will charge at a continuous 40A. If both are plugged in at the same time, they each charge at 20A until one is finished, and then the other ramps up to 40A.

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