Time to Reflect on my Reservation

[Neo]

When I made my reservation for the Tri-Motor Full Self-Driving, it was late in the game, January 25, 2021...

I wasn't a fan of the design, but I was a fan of these main things:

• Tesla Infrastructure & ideology
• Energy Independence
• 500 miles range (250ish towing)
• $69k price at the time
• 17k Towing Capacity (tri-motor)

I'm going 100% electric personally, energy independence is a critical personal goal. I'm building Taj-Ma-Haul a 8.5 x 20 x 7.5 tall Toy Hauler Conversion which has become my residence on wheels. It has a 6.9kWatts solar array, 28.8kWatt/hrs of 112kWatt/hrs of planned battery storage and currently 12kWatts of inverter to be expanded to 36kWatts (to charge the CT).

I plan on becoming mostly nomadic traveling to see my aging mother, my kids as they disperse across the country, my sister, friends and a tour of our National Parks. I'll do this by traveling the distance the CT can take me, charge up the CT from Taj-Ma-Haul and sit a day or two to recharge Taj-Ma-Haul's battery and continue on to my destination. A deliberate leisurely pace.

You can see why the original target (let's be fair, nothing contractual/promised about the initial specs) of 500 miles of range, which I'm dropping to 250 miles for towing, was a pretty crucial part of my decision making. 250 miles for the day is a good towing day and roughly the distance from Tucson to Flagstaff (260).

Then we get the release data and boy was I disappointed.

• 320 miles Range (160ish towing)
• $99k
• 11k Towing Capacity

I can live with the towing capacity drop, Taj-Ma-Haul will come in around 8k/lbs when completed. The price is a stinger, I'm not going to lie. What is/was the dealbreaker was the range... Add insult to injury and we can pay whatever the additional cost is to get the optional battery upgrade for 420 440+ miles range? We're already $30k over and then another cost above that to still come up shy of the original target range of 500 miles?

I'm sitting on my reservation for now, but I'm really disappointed. Time has lessened the feelings and I'm glad I've been patient working through this, but man what a significant let down. There aren't any better options out there, electrically I mean. The CT is still the best electric option out there, but I am hoping the time it takes to get to my reservation number that Tesla get's closer to the original targets somehow, wishful thinking I know.

My stop gap vehicle, a Porsche Cayenne Turbo S is showing the wear I'm putting on it, now with 170k miles and 80k miles of towing. It has been marvelous so far, but the maintenance is increasing with its age and wear. So I've been considering all kinds of other stop gap -or- final solution vehicles. The GMC 3500 Safari, Toyota Tundra, second hand FedEx delivery vehicle or another newer Porsche Cayenne Turbo S. All of these range in cost between $30 and $60k for the ones I've looked at. If I go this route I'd convert it to an electric vehicle. Which would be less than ideal, I'd have to be in the business of dealing with the conversion and reliability of it...

I say all of this to hear constructive feedback, what are your thoughts?

Cheers,
Neo

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[SentinelOne]

Cant argue with anyone that tows a toy hauler with a Turbo S - that's awesome!

Yea, change in my original plans because the CB doesn't work for me towing the Toy Hauler, so keeping my 2500 diesel for that use case!

Site note: That's a **** load of battery and solar...I only have 1200w solar and 400ah battery, backup generator - granted just for camping. Installed components in a cabinet in the toy hauler section - can still fit multiple bikes / UTV as it's only 10" deep!

 

[M0unt41nm4n]

I say all of this to hear constructive feedback, what are your thoughts?

Cheers,
Neo

The CT is great for what it is. But a toy hauler... you really should be getting a diesel if your goal is to float around with it. Get the right tool for the right job. I for one am keeping my F350 High Output Diesel for the toy haulers and long pulling. The CT won't get much hooked up to its hitch except for a bike rack. Enjoy both for what they do and what they are. Remember, you don't want to use a sledge hammer for every nail.

 

[Neo]

Cant argue with anyone that tows a toy hauler with a Turbo S - that's awesome!

Yea, change in my original plans because the CB doesn't work for me towing the Toy Hauler, so keeping my 2500 diesel for that use case!

Site note: That's a **** load of battery and solar...I only have 1200w solar and 400ah battery, backup generator - granted just for camping. Installed components in a cabinet in the toy hauler section - can still fit multiple bikes / UTV as it's only 10" deep!

The Cayenne is surprisingly capable, I set the cruise and it just goes, even up the 6k foot climb from PHX to Flagstaff.
Your hauler sounds awesome, I think I’ll have room for a side by side, not absolutely sure yet.
My current 28.8kWatt/hrs is good enough for a minimum of 4 days of no sun, or infinite with some sun
With the CT I’ll be able to send power bilaterally - another benefit I wasn’t sure of at announcement that I should’ve mentioned before!

 

[Neo]

The CT is great for what it is. But a toy hauler... you really should be getting a diesel if your goal is to float around with it. Get the right tool for the right job. I for one am keeping my F350 High Output Diesel for the toy haulers and long pulling. The CT won't get much hooked up to its hitch except for a bike rack. Enjoy both for what they do and what they are. Remember, you don't want to use a sledge hammer for every nail.

Even rated at 11k/lbs towing and weighing 7k/lbs, should be more than capable.
If I end up needing more, I sure would like to see Tesla release that truck they showed that’s between the CT and the Semi!

 

[DumpsterFire]

Even rated at 11k/lbs towing and weighing 7k/lbs, should be more than capable.
If I end up needing more, I sure would like to see Tesla release that truck they showed that’s between the CT and the Semi!

Yeah I think it’s gonna be a hot minute or two before we see any consumer EV truck come to market that can haul long distances. The CT is more of a “throw shit in the back” kind of truck right now.

 

[M0unt41nm4n]

Even rated at 11k/lbs towing and weighing 7k/lbs, should be more than capable.
If I end up needing more, I sure would like to see Tesla release that truck they showed that’s between the CT and the Semi!

Yeah its capable... if you want to charge it every 75-100 miles... some folks don't have issue with that. I surely would... it would take you forever to get from point A to point B. But that's just my opinion.

 

[Neo]

Yeah its capable... if you want to charge it every 75-100 miles... some folks don't have issue with that. I surely would... it would take you forever to get from point A to point B. But that's just my opinion.

that is my worry, if I do the upgraded battery, then 200ish miles... As crazy as this sounds... I've considered getting my commercial license and somehow reserving the Semi??? I'm not sure if I could even reserve one, I don't see a way yet...
but the cost of the CT + batt upgrade may be within a similar cost?

 

[Jhodgesatmb]

I was surprised to read this post and all of the responses but to not see a correction on the range extender, which Tesla said would bring the range to 470 miles, not 420 miles. Not only that, but Tesla may very well improve the range on the Cybertruck by then. All this said, if you are planning on regular, long-distance, hauling you probably want an ICE vehicle for the foreseeable future.

 

[Neo]

I was surprised to read this post and all of the responses but to not see a correction on the range extender, which Tesla said would bring the range to 470 miles, not 420 miles. Not only that, but Tesla may very well improve the range on the Cybertruck by then. All this said, if you are planning on regular, long-distance, hauling you probably want an ICE vehicle for the foreseeable future.

Updated my original post to show the crossed out 420 and the correct 470 miles - thanks.

I already have an ice vehicle, but like my original post, I'm moving towards a 100% electric footprint. That means I'll have to deal with some growing pains along the way. Consider this, I already have to stop after about 200-230 miles with my Cayenne, severely less if in a headwind. So having to stop for the same # of times, albeit longer, there isn't much of a trade off for being electric.

I get between 9-11 mpg towing, so a round trip from Tucson to Flagstaff currently costs me around:

520 (miles)/9(mpg)*$3.759 = $217.19 - That doesn't count maintenance costs
520 (miles)/?(kWatt/hrs)*$n.nn=$nn.nn - Need help here, no idea what these figures are

If I'm charging using my own generated juice, the cost is $0.00 for the trip, less my sunken cost and maintenance. The sunken cost would be shared across everything I own that runs on electricity.

 

[cgladue]

When I made my reservation, it was late in the game, January 25, 2021...

I wasn't a fan of the design, but I was a fan of these main things:

• Tesla Infrastructure & ideology
• Energy Independence
• 500 miles range (250ish towing)
• $69k price at the time
• 17k Towing Capacity (tri-motor)

I'm going 100% electric personally, energy independence is a critical personal goal. I'm building Taj-Ma-Haul a 8.5 x 20 x 7.5 tall Toy Hauler Conversion which has become my residence on wheels. It has a 6.9kWatt/hrs solar array, 28.8kWatt/hrs of 112kWatt/hrs of planned battery storage and currently 12kWatt/hrs of inverter to be expanded to 36kWatt/hrs (to charge the CT).

I plan on becoming mostly nomadic traveling to see my aging mother, my kids as they disperse across the country, my sister, friends and a tour of our National Parks. I'll do this by traveling the distance the CT can take me, charge up the CT from Taj-Ma-Haul and sit a day or two to recharge Taj-Ma-Haul's battery and continue on to my destination. A deliberate leisurely pace.

You can see why the original target (let's be fair, nothing contractual/promised about the initial specs) of 500 miles of range, which I'm dropping to 250 miles for towing, was a pretty crucial part of my decision making. 250 miles for the day is a good towing day and roughly the distance from Tucson to Flagstaff (260).

Then we get the release data and boy was I disappointed.

• 320 miles Range (160ish towing)
• $99k
• 11k Towing Capacity

I can live with the towing capacity drop, Taj-Ma-Haul will come in around 8k/lbs when completed. The price is a stinger, I'm not going to lie. What is/was the dealbreaker was the range... Add insult to injury and we can pay whatever the additional cost is to get the optional battery upgrade for 420 470 miles range? We're already $30k over and then another cost above that to still come up shy of the original target range of 500 miles?

I'm sitting on my reservation for now, but I'm really disappointed. Time has lessened the feelings and I'm glad I've been patient working through this, but man what a significant let down. There aren't any better options out there, electrically I mean. The CT is still the best electric option out there, but I am hoping the time it takes to get to my reservation number that Tesla get's closer to the original targets somehow, wishful thinking I know.

My stop gap vehicle, a Porsche Cayenne Turbo S is showing the wear I'm putting on it, now with 170k miles and 80k miles of towing. It has been marvelous so far, but the maintenance is increasing with its age and wear. So I've been considering all kinds of other stop gap -or- final solution vehicles. The GMC 3500 Safari, Toyota Tundra, second hand FedEx delivery vehicle or another newer Porsche Cayenne Turbo S. All of these range in cost between $30 and $60k for the ones I've looked at. If I go this route I'd convert it to an electric vehicle. Which would be less than ideal, I'd have to be in the business of dealing with the conversion and reliability of it...

I say all of this to hear constructive feedback, what are your thoughts?

Cheers,
Neo

are you doing all this? Because you used kWh as units incorrectly in a lot of your specs.

 

[cgladue]

Updated my original post to show the crossed out 420 and the correct 470 miles - thanks.

I already have an ice vehicle, but like my original post, I'm moving towards a 100% electric footprint. That means I'll have to deal with some growing pains along the way. Consider this, I already have to stop after about 200-230 miles with my Cayenne, severely less if in a headwind. So having to stop for the same # of times, albeit longer, there isn't much of a trade off for being electric.

I get between 9-11 mpg towing, so a round trip from Tucson to Flagstaff currently costs me around:

520 (miles)/9(mpg)*$3.759 = $217.19 - That doesn't count maintenance costs
520 (miles)/?(kWatt/hrs)*$n.nn=$nn.nn - Need help here, no idea what these figures are

If I'm charging using my own generated juice, the cost is $0.00 for the trip, less my sunken cost and maintenance. The sunken cost would be shared across everything I own that runs on electricity.

the major issue wont be that you need to stop every 100 miles, it will be you have to drop and re-attach your trailer every time... to be honest as much as you want to be 100% electric to give you a warm and fuzzy, you are going to be in a world of hurt for quite a while.

 

[Neo]

I used kWatt/hrs, the correct term is kWh? Where specifically did I mess up so I can correct it, thanks.

OK, rather than add another correction response, adding a note here: I think I updated all of the errant designations - thanks @cgladue

 

[Woodrick]

Honestly, it really doesn't sound as you've done a complete engineering study on the numbers that you have, they don't all seem to add up correctly.

First, you state that the trailer will max out just shy of 8,000 lbs, that's either beyond or at absolute max for the Cayenne, which I believe maxes at 7716 lbs.

You indicate that with your 6.9kWatt/hrs solar array that you can charge in a few days. Well, I'm guessing you may have meant a 6.9kW array, not kWh. if it is kWh, then it is going to take 20 days.
But if it is a 6.9kW array, is it flat on the roof or are you going to be able to angle it to maximize power? And unless you park the trailer in the same direction every time, those cells would need to be able to rotate. If this isn't the case, then the panels are going to be nowhere near their maximum output.
But in any case, clouds happen. Especially as you get out of Arizona.


But what about other loads? What about lights, refrigerator, air conditioning (heat and cool)? They can take a lot of power as well.

You also need to be careful about adding that much battery storage to a trailer, you've got to keep the tongue weight within limits. That suggests that the batteries will need to go over the wheels.

And where do you expect to stay while on the road? Campgrounds may not let you in with this configuration.

And as many have found out, the nomadic camper life isn't the life for everyone. And you seem to be starting off on what may be a miserable to live in contraption with no windows.

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