Trump Tax Bill Passes in House: Major changes for EVs

[dalton108]

Doesn't sound like a "beautiful" bill to me.

Try saying it sarcastically, though. ?

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[nevetsyad]

…and to think Elon may have influenced this over the last 6-months

Bravo,…guy

As a reminder, the last guy tried to remove it, just for Tesla. Union built ones in Mexico and Canada would still get it. All teams are insane.

 

[Beetlebug62]

Trump's new tax bill passed the house and below are it's impacts on EVs:

• Kills the $7,500 tax credit for EV manufacturers that have sold more than 200k EVs (Tesla) at the end of 2025
• Strips many solar and battery credits Tesla uses
• Kills Commercial Clean Credit
• Imposes $250 a year federal tax per EV to make up for loss of fuel tax
  • This would be in addition to your state tax (South Carolina has $250 per year)

https://www.investors.com/news/tesl...passed-trump-tax-bill-means-stock-market-evs/

Something to keep an eye on as it heads to the Senate.

I've also read the vehicle loan interest up to 2028 will be deductible, up to $10k a year, even without itemizing.

That can easily offset the $250 road tax.

Since I got the 1.99% promo rate, my interest is actually pretty low, only $3300 by end of 2028. Either way, it could be worth $1000 total, to me on saved taxes over the next 4 fiscal years. For those paying market rates, it would be worth quite a lot more!

 

[CybertruckCovers]

In the future, I’ll just build an EV myself and register it as an ICE vehicle. Ha
I’ve always wanted to build a kit car. Here’s another reason to build a Lamborghini kit car with the muscle of Tesla. Haha

A Teslambo sounds good to me!

 

[CyberGus]

I actually feel dumber for having bothered making this response...

I award you no points.

 

[BrockN]

It is not sounds like it is Big Oil congressional bill it is a Big Oil congressional bill
Why?
EVs are a threat to Big Oil and EVs will destroy the Big Oil industry
How?
65% of Crude Oil is for the transportation industry 55% ICE cars with Jets, Ships, Trains, and Buses the remaining 10% Crude Oil

3 years America, Europe, China will be ~ 100% EV and will be 100% self sufficient on crude oil thru Coal, Nuke, Wind, Solar, Hydro E-power and battery storage.

ICE will not be gone but limited to only Jets, Ships, Trains, and Buses, but still America, Europe, China with its own Crude natural resources will be a Crude Oil self sufficient nations!

If the world sees America, Europe, China gains, every nation on Earth will follow America, Europe, China EV revolution!

$8 Trillion per year crude oil loss and $4 Trillion per year ICE car industry loss that puts an end to that ICE car industry and big oil.

End to a Buggy Whip Industry

FIN

I don't think it will happen as quickly as you suggested, but it's inevitable. What we're seeing might even be described as an extinction burst. Big Oil is doing everything it can to extend its profitable life, including buying influence with every politician it can. And those corrupt b*stards are happy to take the money, as we see on the news pretty much every single day.

 

[PungoteagueDave]

“It is not sounds like it is Big Oil congressional bill it is a Big Oil congressional bill”


“3 years America, Europe, China will be ~ 100% EV and will be 100% self sufficient on crude oil thru Coal, Nuke, Wind, Solar, Hydro E-power and battery storage.”

End to a Buggy Whip Industry

FIN

Wishful thinking by a wide margin. I spend about half the year overseas. This time last year I motorcycled Japan’s six largest islands and saw zero EV presence. Literally zero. Officialy the number last year was 2% of vehicles sold in Japan, but we didn’t see even that.

Then I bicycled the Danube River from Germany’s Black Forest to Budapest last fall. We saw a few EVs in Germany, none in Austria, Hungary. Then we did a motorcycle trip from Heidelberg to Rotterdam for a ferry to England, and ferries to the Shetland Islands, Orkneys, Skye, crisscrossed Scotland, Wales, spent a week in London, then back via Chunnel and France to Heidelberg where we store the motorcycle and a couple bicycles. We saw maybe a dozen Evs on the entire trip. Especially in the UK but also on the continent, there is VERY strong resistance to EV transition. Evs licensed in the UK represent only 2.7% of licensed vehicles. Over there it’s not Bubbas saying “I’ll never drive an EV - it’s average people who still focus on driving - most cars in the EU still have manual transmissions (over 80% of CURRENT vehicle sales in the UK).

An exception is some of Scandinavia, where we spent about six months over the past eight years - there’s heavy EV adoption in Norway (83%), a lot less in Sweden (20%), very little in Finland (under 10%). In my three trips motorcycling in Russia (also part of Europe) we saw zero EVs.

We are currently walking the Camino de Santiago Portuguese route from Lisbon to Santiago, Spain. In 200 miles of coastal Portugal and Spain we’ve seen a lot of Teslas but no other EVs. Not one. The Teslas were all Ubers or taxis. However we do see a LOT of other new cars on the road, very few older cars. Lots of brightly colored Fiats, VWs, BMWs (more muted colors), Mercedes, some Japanese models - 100% gas or diesel.

Bottom line: over 80% of all cars CURRENTLY sold in Europe are not EV or PHEV. There are a lot of cars being sold around the world that are going to be around for a very long time. But just because one country (Norway) has widespread adoption, does not mean the end for internal combustion vehicles. Far from it. What Tesla has done is impressive, and I was an early adopter, but lets face it, there are far fewer here or coming than we might think. Very few people in Europe have garages.

China is the big changemaker, with almost 50% of new cars sales now being EVs, but that’s still a lot of new oil-burners going on the road today that will be around and new fuel for decades.

In Africa and South America, basically the entire southern hemisphere except NZ and Australia, EVs aren’t a thing and will not be in our lifetimes - there’s simply not the infrastructure, and distances are often vast. Almost no one in Argentina or Brazil would purchase an EV and that’s not going to change. Central America is also an unlikely candidate for anything but ICE vehicles. And honestly, for much of Canada and Alaska they make zero sense. In cities, yes, but the territories are still very remote.

In 2018 I motorcycled from Virginia to Prudhoe Bay, Alaska, then southward to Ushuaia, Argentina. That trip is and will remain 100% impossible in an EV for a very long time, likely forever. In numerous locales of Alaska, Yukon, Mexico, Colombia, Peru, Chile and Argentina we not only had our big fuel tanks (we rode BMW GSAs with 8.4 gallon gas tanks), we also had to carry supplemental fuel in bladders to get across places like Alaska’s Haul Road, the Atacama desert, and Patagonia. Even then we had some close calls due to high headwinds cutting our MPG in half.

The rumors of widespread EV adoption are just that - wishful thinking met by increasing resistance. The regulatory environment that was previously encouraging the trend is falling away everywhere, not just under DJT in the U.S. I spent a lot of time/resources as an EV ambassador starting with my first Tesla in 2012, but not much anymore. I’ve decided that life is too short to fight that battle, so now EVs are something I simply enjoy.

There are a lot of practical reasons that EVs will remain a niche - but pretty much all we have to know is that almost all Tesla service vehicles are Ford Transit vans. They still buy a bunch every year, and those trucks will have a very long service life. Although I own two Teslas, my farm runs on internal combustion and there are no legit alternatives for our tractors, Super-Duty trucks, or outboard motors on our workboats (the farm product is oyster aquaculture). Our oyster delivery trucks will remain Izusu reefers for many decades to come - anyone needing dual axles for heavy weights, or lift gates for multi-ton loads gets that EV won’t work for that application. Delivery vans, maybe. But a 600-mile round trip in one day taking 50,000 oysters to market will never be job for an EV.

 

[PungoteagueDave]

Nope. Only two countries on earth have majority EV sales. In the Uk and elsewhere in Europe it is under 10%. In Japan it is near zero. The backlash is real and is founded in reality. The world’s southern hemisphere (Africa & South America) have no prospect of selling EVs, full stop. There is insufficient infrastructure, nor any prospect for such developing. The idea that EV transition is real is pure first-world fantasy. I love my EV’s but when adventure traveling (have been around the world three times by motorcycle and currently make long distance bicycle trips four or five months of every year), EVs are not a legitimate alternative, and never will be. Transportable fuel wins in a world where 90% of roads have never been paved.

 

[Baldyloxx]

Nope. Only two countries on earth have majority EV sales. In the Uk and elsewhere in Europe it is under 10%. In Japan it is near zero. The backlash is real and is founded in reality. The world’s southern hemisphere (Africa & South America) have no prospect of selling EVs, full stop. There is insufficient infrastructure, nor any prospect for such developing. The idea that EV transition is real is pure first-world fantasy. I love my EV’s but when adventure traveling (have been around the world three times by motorcycle and currently make long distance bicycle trips four or five months of every year), EVs are not a legitimate alternative, and never will be. Transportable fuel wins in a world where 90% of roads have never been paved.

So if “we” are such a small percentage of the population (EV adopters vs GasHoles), Why such a concerning lost Gas Tax they are now passing on to “us”?

it should be a drop in the bucket…

 

[Sjohnson20]

So if “we” are such a small percentage of the population (EV adopters vs GasHoles), Why such a concerning lost Gas Tax they are now passing on to “us”?

it should be a drop in the bucket…

to discourage EV sales and drag the gas out as long possible

 

[BannedByTMC]

Eva are quite a bit heavier and do more damage to the roads, but this still seems quite high.

No one said EVs are “destroying the roads at ridiculous rate”. I said they do more damage than a non-ev counterpart.

Non EV counterparts to Model 3 and Model S from BMW weigh the same. Your premise is flawed at best. Plus the fact that passenger vehicles do proportionally little damage, a few hundred pounds either way won't matter.

We have now matured and some EVs are the best selling vehicles in the world. Time to act like adults and pay our way.

Paying twice what an average ICE does is not "paying our way", it's punitive. Do not pretend otherwise.

 

[eswimm]

So if “we” are such a small percentage of the population (EV adopters vs GasHoles), Why such a concerning lost Gas Tax they are now passing on to “us”?

it should be a drop in the bucket…

Because raising taxes is unpopular and EV owners are an easy target to shoulder an unfair portion of the burden.

 

[HaulingAss]

Let’s let science guide the fees. Combustion emits road-damaging PM-Particulate Matter, especially Diesel.

Per AI: Potential Effects of Particulate Matter on Asphalt Deterioration:

• Adhesion Issues:
  PM can accumulate on asphalt surfaces, potentially hindering the bonding of new layers of asphalt, which can lead to delamination and cracking.
  
  
• 
  Oxidation:
  Exposure to airborne particles, including those from road dust, can contribute to the oxidation of asphalt binders, leading to brittleness and loss of flexibility.
• Water Penetration:
  Cracks and other damage caused by the accumulation of PM can allow water to penetrate the asphalt, accelerating the deterioration process.
  
  
  Have our legislators studied the science? It’s not just about weight.

Good points, but that's just the tip of the iceberg. The real cost of ICE vehicle particulates and poisonous gasses is in sickness, disease and death which puts a heavy burden on employers and government via sick days and increased health insurance costs including medicare and medicaid. This burden dwarfs the cost of the roads and ICE vehicles are not paying any of these impacts.

Drivers of ICE vehicles are the real free-loaders.

 

[hemiarch]

Wishful thinking by a wide margin. I spend about half the year overseas. This time last year I motorcycled Japan’s six largest islands and saw zero EV presence. Literally zero. Officialy the number last year was 2% of vehicles sold in Japan, but we didn’t see even that.

Then I bicycled the Danube River from Germany’s Black Forest to Budapest last fall. We saw a few EVs in Germany, none in Austria, Hungary. Then we did a motorcycle trip from Heidelberg to Rotterdam for a ferry to England, and ferries to the Shetland Islands, Orkneys, Skye, crisscrossed Scotland, Wales, spent a week in London, then back via Chunnel and France to Heidelberg where we store the motorcycle and a couple bicycles. We saw maybe a dozen Evs on the entire trip. Especially in the UK but also on the continent, there is VERY strong resistance to EV transition. Evs licensed in the UK represent only 2.7% of licensed vehicles. Over there it’s not Bubbas saying “I’ll never drive an EV - it’s average people who still focus on driving - most cars in the EU still have manual transmissions (over 80% of CURRENT vehicle sales in the UK).

An exception is some of Scandinavia, where we spent about six months over the past eight years - there’s heavy EV adoption in Norway (83%), a lot less in Sweden (20%), very little in Finland (under 10%). In my three trips motorcycling in Russia (also part of Europe) we saw zero EVs.

We are currently walking the Camino de Santiago Portuguese route from Lisbon to Santiago, Spain. In 200 miles of coastal Portugal and Spain we’ve seen a lot of Teslas but no other EVs. Not one. The Teslas were all Ubers or taxis. However we do see a LOT of other new cars on the road, very few older cars. Lots of brightly colored Fiats, VWs, BMWs (more muted colors), Mercedes, some Japanese models - 100% gas or diesel.

Bottom line: over 80% of all cars CURRENTLY sold in Europe are not EV or PHEV. There are a lot of cars being sold around the world that are going to be around for a very long time. But just because one country (Norway) has widespread adoption, does not mean the end for internal combustion vehicles. Far from it. What Tesla has done is impressive, and I was an early adopter, but lets face it, there are far fewer here or coming than we might think. Very few people in Europe have garages.

China is the big changemaker, with almost 50% of new cars sales now being EVs, but that’s still a lot of new oil-burners going on the road today that will be around and new fuel for decades.

In Africa and South America, basically the entire southern hemisphere except NZ and Australia, EVs aren’t a thing and will not be in our lifetimes - there’s simply not the infrastructure, and distances are often vast. Almost no one in Argentina or Brazil would purchase an EV and that’s not going to change. Central America is also an unlikely candidate for anything but ICE vehicles. And honestly, for much of Canada and Alaska they make zero sense. In cities, yes, but the territories are still very remote.

In 2018 I motorcycled from Virginia to Prudhoe Bay, Alaska, then southward to Ushuaia, Argentina. That trip is and will remain 100% impossible in an EV for a very long time, likely forever. In numerous locales of Alaska, Yukon, Mexico, Colombia, Peru, Chile and Argentina we not only had our big fuel tanks (we rode BMW GSAs with 8.4 gallon gas tanks), we also had to carry supplemental fuel in bladders to get across places like Alaska’s Haul Road, the Atacama desert, and Patagonia. Even then we had some close calls due to high headwinds cutting our MPG in half.

The rumors of widespread EV adoption are just that - wishful thinking met by increasing resistance. The regulatory environment that was previously encouraging the trend is falling away everywhere, not just under DJT in the U.S. I spent a lot of time/resources as an EV ambassador starting with my first Tesla in 2012, but not much anymore. I’ve decided that life is too short to fight that battle, so now EVs are something I simply enjoy.

There are a lot of practical reasons that EVs will remain a niche - but pretty much all we have to know is that almost all Tesla service vehicles are Ford Transit vans. They still buy a bunch every year, and those trucks will have a very long service life. Although I own two Teslas, my farm runs on internal combustion and there are no legit alternatives for our tractors, Super-Duty trucks, or outboard motors on our workboats (the farm product is oyster aquaculture). Our oyster delivery trucks will remain Izusu reefers for many decades to come - anyone needing dual axles for heavy weights, or lift gates for multi-ton loads gets that EV won’t work for that application. Delivery vans, maybe. But a 600-mile round trip in one day taking 50,000 oysters to market will never be job for an EV.

I’m jealous of your travel habits. Sorry to interject in this heavy conversation. I just wanted to say that.

 

[HaulingAss]

Nope. Only two countries on earth have majority EV sales. In the Uk and elsewhere in Europe it is under 10%. In Japan it is near zero. The backlash is real and is founded in reality. The world’s southern hemisphere (Africa & South America) have no prospect of selling EVs, full stop. There is insufficient infrastructure, nor any prospect for such developing. The idea that EV transition is real is pure first-world fantasy. I love my EV’s but when adventure traveling (have been around the world three times by motorcycle and currently make long distance bicycle trips four or five months of every year), EVs are not a legitimate alternative, and never will be. Transportable fuel wins in a world where 90% of roads have never been paved.

It's not clear why you emphasize the Southern Hemisphere in terms of the speed of transition to electric vehicles.

The Southern Hemisphere, in it's entirety, only amounts to less than 7% of global light vehicle sales. The largest auto markets in the Southern Hemisphere are Brazil, Australia and South Africa, all of which have rapidly growing adoption of EVs. The next three largest markets are Argentina, Chile and New Zealand, all of which have rapidly growing adoption of EVs.

In other words, your analysis has serious flaws. Any reasonable analysis of the speed of transition to electric must look at the numbers honestly, not cherry pick parts of the globe that have very low automobile use to begin with, because those areas have a very low impact on the rate of the transition. The fact that they are lagging in adoption means almost nothing. The three largest auto markets in the world are China, the U.S. and Europe. And they are all making what can only be considered a very rapid transition to electric vehicles.

The transition to electric consistently outpaces the "expert" predictions. They are constantly updating their projections annually.

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