Are there superchargers that don’t “accept free supercharging”?

[TeslaKen]

@hemiarch anything else. Personal searches done. Yet not much response in substance. Every AI service disagrees with you. You know what they say about stubborn surgeons? They kill people.

I'm not sure where the trolling or animosity is coming from in this thread. I understand why Hemiarch is upset because when he got FUSC the thought of non-Tesla owned superchargers being added to the network was not something he considered as a possibility. Now he is concerned that these new chargers might prevent Tesla from building their own chargers in similar locations because an independent one will already be there.

While that is indeed a concern, I don't think we have any facts to suggest that the concern has solidified into reality. My sample size is relatively small given my location, but I do know of an instance (Branson, MO) where Tesla is going to be installing a Tesla owned supercharger even though a private one is also going in not too far away. There are currently 4 destination chargers in the area but no superchargers so there is a need. Whether the Tesla one or the private one goes in first remains to be seen but eventually there will be both according to current plans.

I did check with an owner of a private supercharger today and asked about supporting FUSC and he said that it had been discussed in the past but that because of the way billing works it was not going to be a thing and that privately owned superchargers will NOT support FUSC so I stand corrected on my earlier statement that it was an option (that earlier statement was based in information that is now outdated evidently).

I think functionally the answer is simple, uncheck the box for privately owned stations and they won't show up on the map and just continue to go to Tesla owned stations so you will have your FUSC perk. If Tesla cancels the plans to build superchargers in locations that they've already announced simply because a private station goes in then I think you have a valid beef with Tesla. If Tesla continues to deploy stations per their planned schedule regardless of what private stations go in then I don't think you have a leg to stand on.

If anyone disagrees with me then I will CTRL-ALT-DEL them! (per Weird Al)

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[HaulingAss]

Death by 1,000 cuts
Next will be premium connectivity no longer being free
More superchargers going "independent" etc

I hereby christen you as "Giganegativity". It's incessant and most often not based in reality.

 

[hemiarch]

I'm not sure where the trolling or animosity is coming from in this thread. I understand why Hemiarch is upset because when he got FUSC the thought of non-Tesla owned superchargers being added to the network was not something he considered as a possibility. Now he is concerned that these new chargers might prevent Tesla from building their own chargers in similar locations because an independent one will already be there.

While that is indeed a concern, I don't think we have any facts to suggest that the concern has solidified into reality. My sample size is relatively small given my location, but I do know of an instance (Branson, MO) where Tesla is going to be installing a Tesla owned supercharger even though a private one is also going in not too far away. There are currently 4 destination chargers in the area but no superchargers so there is a need. Whether the Tesla one or the private one goes in first remains to be seen but eventually there will be both according to current plans.

I did check with an owner of a private supercharger today and asked about supporting FUSC and he said that it had been discussed in the past but that because of the way billing works it was not going to be a thing and that privately owned superchargers will NOT support FUSC so I stand corrected on my earlier statement that it was an option (that earlier statement was based in information that is now outdated evidently).

I think functionally the answer is simple, uncheck the box for privately owned stations and they won't show up on the map and just continue to go to Tesla owned stations so you will have your FUSC perk. If Tesla cancels the plans to build superchargers in locations that they've already announced simply because a private station goes in then I think you have a valid beef with Tesla. If Tesla continues to deploy stations per their planned schedule regardless of what private stations go in then I don't think you have a leg to stand on.

If anyone disagrees with me then I will CTRL-ALT-DEL them! (per Weird Al)

Perfectly reasonable. How they play this moving forward remains to be seen. In fact, if this is the case, and they develop the networks in parallel, the private superchargers will actually offload the Tesla ones which is advantageous for users. FUSC and non-FUSC alike. I hope you’re right about that.
My suspicion is that it will be much harder to persuade them to build one where there already is service no matter who owns it though.
In all likelihood this will mostly apply to edge cases or very remote areas and therefore have a very small impact on FUSC users in general but in principle I feel like this should have been a consideration and even though it will likely be a moot point, I don’t like the constant ebb and flow of conditions and rules with them not just as a consumer but as an investor who believes in maintaining negotiation credibility and brand loyalty with customers. No arrangement between them and the clientele appears to be sacred.
Much higher priority for me that they enable PowerShare with my powerwalls for example and it’s kind of hard to trust that because of moves like this and the range extender.

 

[dalton108]

I don’t agree with your opinion on this issue amongst others. Sorry if that’s hard for you.

There is a reason I muted this clown years ago. I’m always gratified when I see a whole bunch of empty boxes only to discover, yep that’s why decided I didn’t want anything to do with this person. Best not to engage with this miserable bastard, Doc. No good will come from doing so.

 

[dalton108]

I love your mastery of the bold function. It’s very well done. I still don’t agree with you.

Absolutely unhinged. Like, clinically.

 

[dalton108]

To the various explainers and name callers out there, I realize it’s completely incomprehensible that someone can understand your arguments and the logic behind them and still not agree with you but this is the case for me.
You’ll just have to live with the fact that I’m an unconvinceable blind cheapskate who doesn’t understand how business works as well as you.
I know where you all are coming from and don’t need more variations of a remedial explanation but in my opinion the free unlimited supercharging agreement with Tesla materially changes when they change how superchargers which are part of the network are funded and now sold.
Sadly for you, the world you live in is full of entitled bozos just like me that you actually have to convince and not bully into agreeing with you.

So, the proper analogy is not that you are going to BP and being angry that they won’t honor your agreement with Phillips. That would be like you going to ChargePoint and being mad that you had to pay for charging because you have free supercharging with Tesla.

An actual analog would be you going to McDonald’s and finding out that they won’t honor your in-app discount or free cheeseburger that you won through the Monopoly Game because it’s a franchisee’s location. Or, if the interest rates on my Chevron gas card changed (but only upward) depending on which location I went to. Those would be functional analogs. AND, with the proper analog, it becomes obvious how indefensible the position is!

It’s OK, even some lawyers have difficulty spotting the actual issues in various fact patterns. This is why the LSAT has been there for decades to weed out people who can’t effectively do complex/multi-step reasoning. It’s kind of important for the job! People are going rue the day when you have a bunch of lawyers that haven’t been through this sorting hat because certain people wanna make it easier for dimwits to become lawyers. But, I digress.

Back to the correct analogy, then the “solution” would be for McDonald’s or Chevron to give you a convenient app telling you which locations you have to avoid now in order to get the benefit of your agreement with them.

@That Beast Mode already outlined above the logistics and economic feasibility of Tesla just doing the right thing in this situation. But as you’ve already pointed out, Doc, Tesla is frequently not a reliable partner in these matters.

You were induced to make business decisions based on your reasonable reading of the plain meaning of the words associated with your agreement “free supercharging” throughout our network. Now, Tesla wants to, retroactively and unilaterally, add a bunch of asterisks and caveats.

I’m always amazed at how, mostly -allegedly grown men, on this site will bend over backwards to make excuses for being bent over backwards by a corporation that produces obscene amounts of profit (but, you’re the cheap one ), apparently, because they have schoolgirl level crushes on the founder. And they love nothing more than trying to browbeat actual grown ass men into submitting to their imbecilic ways of thinking about this stuff.

“Trying.” Never gonna happen!

 

[TeslaKen]

So, the proper analogy is not that you are going to BP and being angry that they won’t honor your agreement with Phillips. That would be like you going to ChargePoint and being mad that you had to pay for charging because you have free supercharging with Tesla.

An actual analog would be you going to McDonald’s and finding out that they won’t honor your in-app discount or free cheeseburger that you won through the Monopoly Game because it’s a franchisee’s location. Or, if the interest rates on my Chevron gas card changed (but only upward) depending on which location I went to. Those would be functional analogs. AND, with the proper analog, it becomes obvious how indefensible the position is!

It’s OK, even some lawyers have difficulty spotting the actual issues in various fact patterns. This is why the LSAT has been there for decades to weed out people who can’t effectively do complex/multi-step reasoning. It’s kind of important for the job! People are going rue the day when you have a bunch of lawyers that haven’t been through this sorting hat because certain people wanna make it easier for dimwits to become lawyers. But, I digress.

Back to the correct analogy, then the “solution” would be for McDonald’s or Chevron to give you a convenient app telling you which locations you have to avoid now in order to get the benefit of your agreement with them.

@That Beast Mode already outlined above the logistics and economic feasibility of Tesla just doing the right thing in this situation. But as you’ve already pointed out, Doc, Tesla is frequently not a reliable partner in these matters.

You were induced to make business decisions based on your reasonable reading of the plain meaning of the words associated with your agreement “free supercharging” throughout our network. Now, Tesla wants to, retroactively and unilaterally, add a bunch of asterisks and caveats.

I’m always amazed at how, mostly -allegedly grown men, on this site will bend over backwards to make excuses for being bent over backwards by a corporation that produces obscene amounts of profit (but, you’re the cheap one ), apparently, because they have schoolgirl level crushes on the founder. And they love nothing more than trying to browbeat actual grown ass men into submitting to their imbecilic ways of thinking about this stuff.

“Trying.” Never gonna happen!

It's funny I actually set up an example with Phillips 66 and Conoco and then erased it because I thought I should simplify for the crowd here and went with BP instead but yes franchisee vs Corp owned is a good analogy, another is planet fitness that has Corp owned and private owned gyms and some of your perks apply to Corp only. My question back to you counselor is did Tesla implement this is a reasonable way or would a jury believe they haven't done so or are in fact prevented from ever having privately owned sites for some other reason? sometimes the lawyer in the room isn't playing to the other lawyer but to the jury .

 

[dalton108]

It's funny I actually set up an example with Phillips 66 and Conoco and then erased it because I thought I should simplify for the crowd here and went with BP instead but yes franchisee vs Corp owned is a good analogy, another is planet fitness that has Corp owned and private owned gyms and some of your perks apply to Corp only. My question back to you counselor is did Tesla implement this is a reasonable way or would a jury believe they haven't done so or are in fact prevented from ever having privately owned sites for some other reason? sometimes the lawyer in the room isn't playing to the other lawyer but to the jury .

This is a question that only applies, if at all, prospectively. Contracts turn on the meaning of words, not reasonability. The question isn’t can they have privately own sites on their network. The question is whether they have to honor their agreement (as written) with, Doc and others like him.

I don’t think there’s much of a debate here as it pertains to @hemiarch and other similarly situated people. Tesla is good at math and may have already concluded that this breach is economically defensible I’m quite frankly that’s what makes them unreliable in these situations. They are not sentimental. They are mercenary.

 

[hemiarch]

If I told you that you could have a lifetime of free ikea meatballs and then said that some ikeas will no longer serve them but allow a third party food service provider to sell them in exchange for a fee and/or rent, would you think my meatball contract was being honored?
Personally, I’d see that as a weaselish way for IKEA to renege on my meatball contract.

Tried this line of reasoning early on in this conversation and it resulted in an angry hurt animal outburst with lots and lots of projection. For the truly die-hard “Tesla can do no wrong” people, this logic doesn’t apply. Or maybe it’s better to describe them as “Elon can do no wrong” people. I’m fairly confident this devotion doesn’t just apply to Tesla but to just about everything he does.
They have what you might almost describe as “faith”. Belief despite evidence to the contrary.
Good for them. Faith is healthy for a lot of people and seems to be a fundamental human want/need. Look how successful religions have been in human society over the years. I don’t outright tell my kids Santa doesn’t exist either and maybe I shouldn’t have said that on this forum for similar reasons..

 

[dalton108]

Tried this line of reasoning early on in this conversation and it resulted in an angry hurt animal outburst with lots and lots of projection. For the truly die-hard “Tesla can do no wrong” people, this logic doesn’t apply. Or maybe it’s better to describe them as “Elon can do no wrong” people. I’m fairly confident this devotion doesn’t just apply to Tesla but to just about everything he does.
They have what you might almost describe as “faith”. Belief despite evidence to the contrary.
Good for them. Faith is healthy for a lot of people and seems to be a fundamental human want/need. Look how successful religions have been in human society over the years. I don’t outright tell my kids Santa doesn’t exist either and maybe I shouldn’t have said that on this forum for similar reasons..

It’s hero worship. It’s “pro hominem” and it’s just as fallacious and harmful to seeing things clearly as “ad hominem.” Lizard brain stuff. It makes you easy to exploit. You’ll even argue against your own interests.

 

[hemiarch]

It’s hero worship. It’s “pro hominem” and it’s just as fallacious and harmful to seeing things clearly as “ad hominem.” Lizard brain stuff. It makes you easy to exploit. You’ll even argue against your own interests.

Mmm…I love hominem

 

[hemiarch]

There is a reason I muted this clown years ago. I’m always gratified when I see a whole bunch of empty boxes only to discover, yep that’s why decided I didn’t want anything to do with this person. Best not to engage with this miserable bastard, Doc. No good will come from doing so.

At the core of every angry person there is a decent and usually hurt person waiting to be found and befriended or at least understood. It’s how I choose to live my life. Just like in your profession, my job makes me face that question daily. It would be very hard for me to help some of the people I see on their worst day if I didn’t believe that.
It does get exhausting, but I legitimately believe in the idea that the world is what you make of it and that treating people like they treat others is allowing them to win and shape the world more than they deserve.
This guy isn’t going to tell me what I can and can’t say to my friends in the forum about MY contract with Tesla and blocking him would just be resorting to the same immature antics he constantly threatens.
Letting him and his cronies talk just publicly exposes who they are and is actually useful for the rest of the community.

 

[dalton108]

At the core of every angry person there is a decent and usually hurt person waiting to be found and befriended or at least understood. It’s how I choose to live my life. Just like in your profession, my job makes me face that question daily. It would be very hard for me to help some of the people I see on their worst day if I didn’t believe that.
It does get exhausting, but I legitimately believe in the idea that the world is what you make of it and that treating people like they treat others is allowing them to win and shape the world more than they deserve.
This guy isn’t going to tell me what I can and can’t say to my friends in the forum about MY contract with Tesla and blocking him would just be resorting to the same immature antics he constantly threatens.
Letting him and his cronies talk just publicly exposes who they are and is actually useful for the rest of the community.

I love it Doc! I’m all about living and letting live. And it’s easier for me to do that if I separate myself from nincompoops.

You have the hippocratic oath and your good heart and kind nature to inform your approach. I on the other hand and far more of a son of a bitch than you are and I bill by the hour, so I’m both impatient and intolerant of nonsense.

 

[TeslaKen]

I love it Doc! I’m all about living and live. And it’s easier for me to do that if I separate myself from nincompoops.

You have the hippocratic oath and your good heart and kind nature to inform your approach. I on the other hand and far more of a son of a bitch than you are and I bill by the hour, so I’m both impatient and intolerant of nonsense.

That reminds me who do we send our bills to for the hours spent here responding?

 

[Outdoors]

Tried this line of reasoning early on in this conversation and it resulted in an angry hurt animal outburst with lots and lots of projection. For the truly die-hard “Tesla can do no wrong” people, this logic doesn’t apply. Or maybe it’s better to describe them as “Elon can do no wrong” people. I’m fairly confident this devotion doesn’t just apply to Tesla but to just about everything he does.
They have what you might almost describe as “faith”. Belief despite evidence to the contrary.
Good for them. Faith is healthy for a lot of people and seems to be a fundamental human want/need. Look how successful religions have been in human society over the years. I don’t outright tell my kids Santa doesn’t exist either and maybe I shouldn’t have said that on this forum for similar reasons..

So funny. You must be confused or be thinking of someone else because again I'll state for the second time. That Tesla is not a very good corporate citizen if you ask me. My experience with them has been good at times and lackluster more often than not recently.

And the stuff that they do play the in the legal world is quite shady. Didn't they withhold evidence or Stonewall or slow walk information to a plaintiff on the death case down in Florida?

But let's get back to the point. These are privately owned superchargers with no Tesla logos on them. They are not part of the Tesla supercharging Network unless you decide you want to enable the search function for them.

And those that think that Tesla is going to stop making superchargers in force others to make them. All while slowly eliminate the free supercharging which is being phased out anyway and probably in 9 years probably won't be a factor to most people. One word delusional. And just fueling fire because you again just want to hear yourself speak.

Could you imagine all the people going in and out of tiny little grocery stores that only have four stalls put up?

What I think Tesla is trying to do is accommodate the business user. If you look at the business cases from Europe and China that Tesla talks about, you'll see that people go and use those businesses and get more foot traffic. Does it make sense to me from a business owner's perspective? Not really. It will be very expensive and I don't know if there is an roi on that one. I'm sure someone will say that Tesla is making so much money from this project that it's going to add not cents to their earnings but dollars. A fairy tale I would say.

I think some here think that this is going to be the next way it's expanded. I think we're going to see a very very small number of these going in.

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