4680 dry cathode battery for the CyberTruck. When and what range?

[CTOWannabe]

Hi all:

It seems that the 4680 dry cathode battery is at least to prototype stage.

https://www.techspot.com/news/104119-tesla-rolls-out-first-ever-cybertruck-dry-cathode.html
https://www.notebookcheck.net/First...-to-increase-its-energy-density.875816.0.html

I was curious what the collective thinks about when the CyberTruck will get it as standard part of production, and what it will mean for range?

My guess is that maybe 6 months from now we might see it hit production. That is a blind optimism guess of course.

With regard to range, I would *think* they want to keep the weight and physical size of the battery close to the same. If so, my guess is that would yield maybe a 20% boost in range.

I would love to hear what the more knowledgeable folks here (pretty much everyone here being more knowledgeable than myself) think.

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[Outdoors]

Keep dreaming.

 

[Fausto]

Everything I've read so far is that this will not yield a range increase. It's only for ease of manufacturing and thus a cost reduction for Tesla.

 

[Outdoors]

Get the cost down. Try to improve margins. Then sell volume story to the street we call Wall.

 

[Model3Guy]

Elon has said that by the end of 2024, all Cybertrucks off the production line will be equipped with the new battery.

 

[CTSoFL]

Hi all:

It seems that the 4680 dry cathode battery is at least to prototype stage.

https://www.techspot.com/news/104119-tesla-rolls-out-first-ever-cybertruck-dry-cathode.html
https://www.notebookcheck.net/First...-to-increase-its-energy-density.875816.0.html

I was curious what the collective thinks about when the CyberTruck will get it as standard part of production, and what it will mean for range?

My guess is that maybe 6 months from now we might see it hit production. That is a blind optimism guess of course.

With regard to range, I would *think* they want to keep the weight and physical size of the battery close to the same. If so, my guess is that would yield maybe a 20% boost in range.

I would love to hear what the more knowledgeable folks here (pretty much everyone here being more knowledgeable than myself) think.

I believe we have muliple threads on this.

- Critical cost of production improvement
- Appears to have no impacts +/- on energy density
- Appears to have no impacts +/- on charging efficacy

 

[CTOWannabe]

I believe we have muliple threads on this.

- Critical cost of production improvement
- Appears to have no impacts +/- on energy density
- Appears to have no impacts +/- on charging efficacy

Sorry, I did do a quick search and didn’t see anything specific but my search-fu on here is probably weak. Any pointers to them would be appreciated.

I could swear I read some articles that purported a 16% capacity boost, so a little surprised there is no benefit. So it’s strictly a yield and cost of production benefit then?

 

[CTSoFL]

Sorry, I did do a quick search and didn’t see anything specific but my search-fu on here is probably weak. Any pointers to them would be appreciated.

I could swear I read some articles that purported a 16% capacity boost, so a little surprised there is no benefit. So it’s strictly a yield and cost of production benefit then?

From everything I've read, Tesla's in-house production of dry cathode at scale and at cost reduction is the prize for the 4680 cell.

At least that is my undertsanding.

I'm no Tesla insider or super geek, so if others have credible knowledge on energy density or charging efficacy I would defer to them.

 

[CTOWannabe]

https://www.teslaoracle.com/2020/09/25/tesla-4680-cell-analyzed-sandy-munro/

So this notes the 16% number which I guess goes back to battery day and the 4680 generally and not necessarily any boost from the dry tech. And in one of my original posted articles is the density is equal to Panasonic batteries when you account they are 30% lighter.

 

[CtGA]

Nearly everyone here who has bought the foundation series is going to tell you that you’re crazy for thinking that Tesla will increase range and further improve the product for a lower price point in the future. You know, like what didn’t happen with the model S and X….

 

[SentinelOne]

Nearly everyone here who has bought the foundation series is going to tell you that you’re crazy for thinking that Tesla will increase range and further improve the product for a lower price point in the future. You know, like what didn’t happen with the model S and X….

yeah you are correct, all the above will happen, it's 100% guaranteed.....and I'll enjoy my truck until that one comes out and then get it if the changes are significant enough! Still have 2 reservations!

 

[Jager]

The 4680 assumptions that were at the heart of Battery Day in 2020 included two significant elements... a significant reduction in battery production costs, for which the dry cathode process was key; and a significant increase in cell energy density. Tesla optimistically expected to have both those elements nailed down very quickly.

The 4680 project has, broadly, been a failure. It's the biggest reason the Cybertruck was delayed as long as it was. Current Cybertruck packs cost more to produce, and hold less energy-per-cell, than Tesla originally anticipated.

Elon's end-of-2024 mandate to the 4680 team was that they needed to get in-house-produced cell costs down to the same price point as third-party-sourced 4680's. His mandate said nothing about implementing the dry cathode process. It appears the battery team will hit that price bogey, or be very close to it, even with the current wet cathode process.

The gen-2 4680 "Cybercell" used in all production Cybertrucks to date has managed to eke out a modest energy density improvement over the first gen cells. But it still lags what was expected for the Cybertruck pack at Battery Day.

It's hard to overstate how important the dry cathode process is for Tesla. It will dramatically improve margins of the Cybertruck.

But it brings no meaningful energy density improvement.

 

[CyberGus]

The 4680 project has, broadly, been a failure.

You say "failure", I say "late."

The dry electrode process was a new direction, never been done before at scale. Of course it can be done, but Elon tends to be overly-optimistic with timelines.

The energy density increase was planned to come primarily from doping with silicon, which has a known problem with reducing cell longevity. Solving this challenge would be a huge boon to all lithium-based storage, not just the 4680.

 

[Woodrick]

Easy answer, you'll probably never know when they are implemented in the Cybertruck.

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