140 mile round-trip on FSD v13 yesterday - some observations

[carsly]

So I had to take a 70 mile trip each way yesterday for an electrical inspection on a property across New Jersey. Our highways run north-south for the most part until you're near NYC so this was cutting west to east across the state to the coast. Lots of windy back roads, blind turns, bizarre intersections and crested hills. Figured I'd make the run with FSD v13 that just installed the night before and see how it goes. Here were my observations:

• Driving was much smoother - acceleration, braking (especially coming into a red light or stop sign was far less abrupt and more natural) and handling tight turns the truck did a much better job of slowing down to make the turn, maintain speed in the turn, and gently accelerate out - kind of like a person would do
• Steering was smoother - I was having the mid-turn correction issue on tight right-hand turns with abruptness in the actions as well as the crashing into center medians on left-hand turns. Both of those sets of issues seem to have been resolved.
• I like having the driving profiles back - I tend to drive on chill to maintain plenty of cushion for braking/unanticipated situations and the prior 'one size fits all' profile was quite aggressive
• Ended up doing the 140+ mile round trip with only a few interventions

The interventions:

• returning around 5pm it was darkening out, on a narrow country lane there was a bicyclist on the tight right shoulder who was difficult to see but they appropriately had a blinking red/white light on the back of the bike. Cybertruck was ready to assert its lane dominance and buzz the biker, maybe knocking them over. As the other side of the double yellow was clear I broke off FSD to put my drive wheels just over the double yellow to give the bicyclist a 3+ foot cushion. This really should be the default behavior, unless CT didn't see the bicyclist.
• At one intersection there are two lanes that turn left, I tend to stay in the right-hand lane as 400 yards ahead at the next light the left-hand lane turns into a left-turn only lane. CT wanted to move into the left lane for the first turn which would then necessitate another lane change to the right hand lane post-turn in order to go straight at the next light, straight at that light is the intended (and mapped) direction of travel. I broke off here as traffic gets very busy and merging right again can be difficult in the short distance between intersections. Easier and safer to stay in the right-most lane and then just go straight.
• In my local neighborhood Cybertruck was very close to a school bus. The bus slowed and turned on a right-turn indicator. Cybertruck was riding up on the bumper of the school bus as it slowed. I broke off, backed off to give the bus room and waited to see if it was going to switch to flashing yellow lights or flashing red lights. As the bus ended up slowing to turn, I then safely passed it on the left. Prudence here would be to take a similar action, back off, observe, collect more data on the situation and then choose an action.

There were 1-2 more that I can't recall at the moment, I did record and send snippets from each intervention to help the FSD team continue to tune the models. All in all, it was surprisingly relaxing (and still odd) to be chauffeured by the truck. Elon is correct in stating that $8K for FSD is too cheap to have an on-call private driver 24x7x365. The rub is this driver is no longer a teenager but is still a mid-20 something with solid experience and decent road sensibilities but not always observant of the safest course of action in low frequency situations as I've noted above. The awe-inspiring thing is Cybertruck didn't even have FSD until a few months ago so I'd guesstimate it's gained 10 years of driving experience in roughly 10 weeks (I've driven this loop with the prior FSD so can compare directly). At this rate, expect it to go from very, very good to near-flawless by mid-2025. Glad we have lifetime FSD in the Foundation Series, it will pay off in spades!

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[SteelMyHeart]

So I had to take a 70 mile trip each way yesterday for an electrical inspection on a property across New Jersey. Our highways run north-south for the most part until you're near NYC so this was cutting west to east across the state to the coast. Lots of windy back roads, blind turns, bizarre intersections and crested hills. Figured I'd make the run with FSD v13 that just installed the night before and see how it goes. Here were my observations:

• Driving was much smoother - acceleration, braking (especially coming into a red light or stop sign was far less abrupt and more natural) and handling tight turns the truck did a much better job of slowing down to make the turn, maintain speed in the turn, and gently accelerate out - kind of like a person would do
• Steering was smoother - I was having the mid-turn correction issue on tight right-hand turns with abruptness in the actions as well as the crashing into center medians on left-hand turns. Both of those sets of issues seem to have been resolved.
• I like having the driving profiles back - I tend to drive on chill to maintain plenty of cushion for braking/unanticipated situations and the prior 'one size fits all' profile was quite aggressive
• Ended up doing the 140+ mile round trip with only a few interventions

The interventions:

• returning around 5pm it was darkening out, on a narrow country lane there was a bicyclist on the tight right shoulder who was difficult to see but they appropriately had a blinking red/white light on the back of the bike. Cybertruck was ready to assert its lane dominance and buzz the biker, maybe knocking them over. As the other side of the double yellow was clear I broke off FSD to put my drive wheels just over the double yellow to give the bicyclist a 3+ foot cushion. This really should be the default behavior, unless CT didn't see the bicyclist.
• At one intersection there are two lanes that turn left, I tend to stay in the right-hand lane as 400 yards ahead at the next light the left-hand lane turns into a left-turn only lane. CT wanted to move into the left lane for the first turn which would then necessitate another lane change to the right hand lane post-turn in order to go straight at the next light, straight at that light is the intended (and mapped) direction of travel. I broke off here as traffic gets very busy and merging right again can be difficult in the short distance between intersections. Easier and safer to stay in the right-most lane and then just go straight.
• In my local neighborhood Cybertruck was very close to a school bus. The bus slowed and turned on a right-turn indicator. Cybertruck was riding up on the bumper of the school bus as it slowed. I broke off, backed off to give the bus room and waited to see if it was going to switch to flashing yellow lights or flashing red lights. As the bus ended up slowing to turn, I then safely passed it on the left. Prudence here would be to take a similar action, back off, observe, collect more data on the situation and then choose an action.

There were 1-2 more that I can't recall at the moment, I did record and send snippets from each intervention to help the FSD team continue to tune the models. All in all, it was surprisingly relaxing (and still odd) to be chauffeured by the truck. Elon is correct in stating that $8K for FSD is too cheap to have an on-call private driver 24x7x365. The rub is this driver is no longer a teenager but is still a mid-20 something with solid experience and decent road sensibilities but not always observant of the safest course of action in low frequency situations as I've noted above. The awe-inspiring thing is Cybertruck didn't even have FSD until a few months ago so I'd guesstimate it's gained 10 years of driving experience in roughly 10 weeks (I've driven this loop with the prior FSD so can compare directly). At this rate, expect it to go from very, very good to near-flawless by mid-2025. Glad we have lifetime FSD in the Foundation Series, it will pay off in spades!

Thanks for sharing. My experience so far is similar. I drive to work on I95, where it seems actual speed limit is 80. The hurry profile is perfect for it. I think turns and stops and following distance on hurry mode are all improved. Left turns improved. Most of my disengagements are similar, mostly when slightly weird low frequency situations arise.

It still won't recognize a right turn merge lane on my commute but all in all I do think it has graduated from teen driver to early 20s.

I think Tesla should call hurry mode something different though. You can just see media reports and court cases where FSD was running when an accident happened: "so when the accident happened the truck was driving recklessly in hurry mode your honor." "Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, most accidents happen when someone is in a hurry."

I think assertive sounded a bit better or maybe something like swift mode or expedited mode

 

[carsly]

Thanks for sharing. My experience so far is similar. I drive to work on I95, where it seems actual speed limit is 80. The hurry profile is perfect for it. I think turns and stops and following distance on hurry mode are all improved. Left turns improved. Most of my disengagements are similar, mostly when slightly weird low frequency situations arise.

It still won't recognize a right turn merge lane on my commute but all in all I do think it has graduated from teen driver to early 20s.

I think Tesla should call hurry mode something different though. You can just see media reports and court cases where FSD was running when an accident happened: "so when the accident happened the truck was driving recklessly in hurry mode your honor." "Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, most accidents happen when someone is in a hurry."

I think assertive sounded a bit better or maybe something like swift mode or expedited mode

- Hurry --> LA Mode
- Standard --> Texas Mode
- Chill --> Boca Raton Mode

 

[cardad]

It’s not great that they haven’t fixed the turn lane logic. It has turn by turn navigation already so it shouldn’t be rocket science to parse that to know what is coming next

 

[carsly]

It’s not great that they haven’t fixed the turn lane logic. It has turn by turn navigation already so it shouldn’t be rocket science to parse that to know what is coming next

Agreed, that was surprising, but not unexpected. The AI team is jamming hard and I get immediately tuning and solving for the current moment in time. Anticipating future moments - when to change lanes on a highway, for example, to prepare for an exit or in this case knowing which turn lane to take based on a planned navigation action 15-30 seconds later will come.

Rate of progress is, IMHO, the most important metric. I don't expect FSD supervised to handle every situation flawlessly because it can't and won't just yet. But making sure it's continuing to learn quickly is the key. Based on progress to date it could perform similar to a 30-something year old driver in Q1 2025 and a 40 something year old driver with decades of experience (and still sharp reactions) in mid 2025. I think we'll all be quite surprised by how far ahead it will be in just twelve months. It's easy to judge the today version, but if you project ahead to what we're likely to see in just one year it's starting to get insane.

BTW, that timeline would happen to coincide with a Cybercab launch some time in 2026. So there are many reasons why they have the go pedal all the way to the floor.

 

[MrTilbur]

Having issues when there are 2 left turn lanes, it defaults to the inside lane every time regardless of traffic or next navigation moves. Another improvement I’m looking towards is emergency vehicle and school zone/time recognition. Can’t wait to drive home and see the improvements, updated during work today!

 

[SteelMyHeart]

Having issues when there are 2 left turn lanes, it defaults to the inside lane every time regardless of traffic or next navigation moves. Another improvement I’m looking towards is emergency vehicle and school zone/time recognition. Can’t wait to drive home and see the improvements, updated during work today!

I agree, what i have noticed is that it will hold the correct line on the left turn if a dotted line is present to demarcation the turn logic. It always turns into inside line when no dotted line is present.

 

[wtibbit]

- Hurry --> LA Mode
- Standard --> Texas Mode
- Chill --> Boca Raton Mode

Well.....

Maybe, Standard --> East Texas Mode

 

[PhilTmonster]

I had a terrible time with it today. Unusable for me. l I started out at 3am from Virginia on a 15 hour drive to Florida. After an hour I had to switch back to cruise control only.. set speed to 72 on both hurry and standard. it fluctuated from 63-72 every few mins, turns it slowed down straights it sped up. Coming up to cars where 12.x would move over and pass in advance, it would come up on the car slow down for 30 seconds and then eventually pass. It was super annoying and jerky going up and down speed. I couldn’t take it, tried again a few hours later and same result. just not good maybe it a night/dark thing.. but it’s a step backwards in my book when on a long journey and the road is clear, you just want it to drive 70 for more than 1 min!

 

[Celiboy]

So I had to take a 70 mile trip each way yesterday for an electrical inspection on a property across New Jersey. Our highways run north-south for the most part until you're near NYC so this was cutting west to east across the state to the coast. Lots of windy back roads, blind turns, bizarre intersections and crested hills. Figured I'd make the run with FSD v13 that just installed the night before and see how it goes. Here were my observations:

• Driving was much smoother - acceleration, braking (especially coming into a red light or stop sign was far less abrupt and more natural) and handling tight turns the truck did a much better job of slowing down to make the turn, maintain speed in the turn, and gently accelerate out - kind of like a person would do
• Steering was smoother - I was having the mid-turn correction issue on tight right-hand turns with abruptness in the actions as well as the crashing into center medians on left-hand turns. Both of those sets of issues seem to have been resolved.
• I like having the driving profiles back - I tend to drive on chill to maintain plenty of cushion for braking/unanticipated situations and the prior 'one size fits all' profile was quite aggressive
• Ended up doing the 140+ mile round trip with only a few interventions

The interventions:

• returning around 5pm it was darkening out, on a narrow country lane there was a bicyclist on the tight right shoulder who was difficult to see but they appropriately had a blinking red/white light on the back of the bike. Cybertruck was ready to assert its lane dominance and buzz the biker, maybe knocking them over. As the other side of the double yellow was clear I broke off FSD to put my drive wheels just over the double yellow to give the bicyclist a 3+ foot cushion. This really should be the default behavior, unless CT didn't see the bicyclist.
• At one intersection there are two lanes that turn left, I tend to stay in the right-hand lane as 400 yards ahead at the next light the left-hand lane turns into a left-turn only lane. CT wanted to move into the left lane for the first turn which would then necessitate another lane change to the right hand lane post-turn in order to go straight at the next light, straight at that light is the intended (and mapped) direction of travel. I broke off here as traffic gets very busy and merging right again can be difficult in the short distance between intersections. Easier and safer to stay in the right-most lane and then just go straight.
• In my local neighborhood Cybertruck was very close to a school bus. The bus slowed and turned on a right-turn indicator. Cybertruck was riding up on the bumper of the school bus as it slowed. I broke off, backed off to give the bus room and waited to see if it was going to switch to flashing yellow lights or flashing red lights. As the bus ended up slowing to turn, I then safely passed it on the left. Prudence here would be to take a similar action, back off, observe, collect more data on the situation and then choose an action.

There were 1-2 more that I can't recall at the moment, I did record and send snippets from each intervention to help the FSD team continue to tune the models. All in all, it was surprisingly relaxing (and still odd) to be chauffeured by the truck. Elon is correct in stating that $8K for FSD is too cheap to have an on-call private driver 24x7x365. The rub is this driver is no longer a teenager but is still a mid-20 something with solid experience and decent road sensibilities but not always observant of the safest course of action in low frequency situations as I've noted above. The awe-inspiring thing is Cybertruck didn't even have FSD until a few months ago so I'd guesstimate it's gained 10 years of driving experience in roughly 10 weeks (I've driven this loop with the prior FSD so can compare directly). At this rate, expect it to go from very, very good to near-flawless by mid-2025. Glad we have lifetime FSD in the Foundation Series, it will pay off in spades!

Thanks for sharing your observations. I updated mine last night and before I could even begin to see how well the truck does with V13, I noticed that every time I engage FSD, the wiper turns on to auto. EVERY TIME. It comes on in auto then starts moving across the windshield even though there’s nothing to wipe away. Anyone else experience this?

 

[Sjohnson20]

Thanks for sharing your observations. I updated mine last night and before I could even begin to see how well the truck does with V13, I noticed that every time I engage FSD, the wiper turns on to auto. EVERY TIME. It comes on in auto then starts moving across the windshield even though there’s nothing to wipe away. Anyone else experience this?

yeah its wiping like crazy for me. it started with this update.

 

[wtibbit]

yeah its wiping like crazy for me. it started with this update.

I think engaging FSD always sets the wipers to auto. That makes sense; FSD is depends on the best camera view possible.

 

[Celiboy]

I think engaging FSD always sets the wipers to auto. That makes sense; FSD is depends on the best camera view possible.

I would agree that this FSD needs the best visability, but if it can’t tell the difference between clean and dry and dirty at this point, that’s a problem. Also, it’s never been the default. The trucks were initially delivered without an auto setting for the BAW.

 

[wtibbit]

I would agree that this FSD needs the best visability, but if it can’t tell the difference between clean and dry and dirty at this point, that’s a problem. Also, it’s never been the default. The trucks were initially delivered without an auto setting for the BAW.

I didn't mention "default". I was just pointing out the fact that engaging FSD (actually any autopilot function) sets the wiper to auto, and why. Here's the Owner's Manual reference: https://www.tesla.com/ownersmanual/... settings by touching the wiper button on the

Look at the note near the bottom of that webpage.

 

[Celiboy]

I didn't mention "default". I was just pointing out the fact that engaging FSD (actually any autopilot function) sets the wiper to auto, and why. Here's the Owner's Manual reference: https://www.tesla.com/ownersmanual/cybertruck/en_us/GUID-356C1F4F-0DA4-4098-90F5-F90A55B73370.html#:~:text=You can access wiper settings by touching the wiper button on the

Look at the note near the bottom of that webpage.

I didn't mention "default". I was just pointing out the fact that engaging FSD (actually any autopilot function) sets the wiper to auto, and why. Here's the Owner's Manual reference: https://www.tesla.com/ownersmanual/cybertruck/en_us/GUID-356C1F4F-0DA4-4098-90F5-F90A55B73370.html#:~:text=You can access wiper settings by touching the wiper button on the

Look at the note near the bottom of that webpage.

Ok then that creates a whole other problem. My windshield was far dirtier prior to the update than after. I literally washed it the day before the update and it’s garaged.

In my case, prior to this update I’ve not even noticed the BAW was in auto without it actively raining. If the auto function it that sensitive after the update, there’s a problem.

After I engaged FSD, two seconds later the wiper wipes. Comes back up, then 5 seconds later, wipes. I turn it to off. Disengage FSD for any reason and re-engage, the same. I did it multiple times to see if it would continue to do it and it did. Either way, Tesla needs to know about and correct it.

Others have said they’re having the same issue.

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