140 mile round-trip on FSD v13 yesterday - some observations

[BengalBoy]

Thanks for sharing your observations. I updated mine last night and before I could even begin to see how well the truck does with V13, I noticed that every time I engage FSD, the wiper turns on to auto. EVERY TIME. It comes on in auto then starts moving across the windshield even though there’s nothing to wipe away. Anyone else experience this?

Yes, experienced this several times today. Otherwise, my FSD experience is much improved. Especially approaching stop lights and stopped vehicles. It is slowing down much sooner and more smoothly without the sudden braking.

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[cardad]

I had a terrible time with it today. Unusable for me. l I started out at 3am from Virginia on a 15 hour drive to Florida. After an hour I had to switch back to cruise control only.. set speed to 72 on both hurry and standard. it fluctuated from 63-72 every few mins, turns it slowed down straights it sped up. Coming up to cars where 12.x would move over and pass in advance, it would come up on the car slow down for 30 seconds and then eventually pass. It was super annoying and jerky going up and down speed. I couldn’t take it, tried again a few hours later and same result. just not good maybe it a night/dark thing.. but it’s a step backwards in my book when on a long journey and the road is clear, you just want it to drive 70 for more than 1 min!

I agree v13 so far is very much alpha not beta. Probably should have held off on installing it. I’ve been in a loaner Y and was thinking the 12.5.6 in the Y wasn’t better than whatever version 12.5 was on the CT and v13 has made me question whether I want the “excitement” of testing FSD whereas it was mostly predictable before.

Some notable things:
1) accelerating to a speed will not hold that speed so the expected behavior has changed
2) nonsensical acceleration in a curve. Never experienced that before.
3) recommended speed offset is 40%!!!???
4) variation in freeway exit behavior between first part of day and later part of day. It used to exit in a right (1 of 2) lane and switch to the left to make the left turn after the exit. This morning it did that and then could not figure out getting into the left lane which has never happened over many times taking the turn. Later in the evening it exited in the correct lane and had no issues moving to the correct turn lane.
5) Overall not an improvement in my book due to unpredictable behavior.

 

[carsly]

I agree v13 so far is very much alpha not beta. Probably should have held off on installing it. I’ve been in a loaner Y and was thinking the 12.5.6 in the Y wasn’t better than whatever version 12.5 was on the CT and v13 has made me question whether I want the “excitement” of testing FSD whereas it was mostly predictable before.

Some notable things:
1) accelerating to a speed will not hold that speed so the expected behavior has changed
2) nonsensical acceleration in a curve. Never experienced that before.
3) recommended speed offset is 40%!!!???
4) variation in freeway exit behavior between first part of day and later part of day. It used to exit in a right (1 of 2) lane and switch to the left to make the left turn after the exit. This morning it did that and then could not figure out getting into the left lane which has never happened over many times taking the turn. Later in the evening it exited in the correct lane and had no issues moving to the correct turn lane.
5) Overall not an improvement in my book due to unpredictable behavior.

I should note the 40% speed offset is ridiculous. I was constantly fiddling with the speed control to bring down the maximum. In NJ if you’re 40% over you’re probably headed to prison. That’s 70mph in a 50mph zone. Insane.

The only saving grace is Cybertruck in chill likes to drives below the speed limit, so I was also nudging the go pedal just to get to the speed limit. That’s a little too conservative. I should read the deets on the offset because it seems to adjust the lower bound of set speed as well as the upper bound.

 

[sys700]

Took my CT out for a drive in the dark with FSD v13 last night. Simple 15 minute drive (each way) to pick up some pizza and return home.

My thoughts:

PROS:

• Much smoother experience overall - feels more mature than the previous version
• It slowed down sooner at stoplights without any of the jerkiness I experienced on v12.
• There was an Amazon delivery van on the side of the road, over into the road a bit, and it navigated around it slightly into the center lane. It was impressive.
• Love the three modes (Chill, Standard, Hurry). I kept it in standard most of the time, but moved it to hurry on my way home to see how it reacted. It seemed to want to tailgate a bit more in this mode, but nothing too dangerous.
• There is a particularly difficult bridge with 2 lanes in the middle where two lanes can merge onto the highway. To the right of these two lanes are two more lanes that go straight through the intersection. I need to make a left turn just after the two merged lanes. It never handled this right on v12, and always attempted to stay in the 2nd merge lane, then go straight through instead of turning to merge onto the highway. It treated it with ease this time, staying in the leftmost straight-thru lane, while navigating around several cars in the dark. Very impressive.

CONS:

• Sometimes it's a bit slower to start at stop signs.
• The wiper wipes my windshield when I engage FSD
• It tried to park at a handicapped spot at my destination
• It tried to turn on a no-turn-on-red light (granted, it was one of those with a lighted NO TURN ON RED that suddenly turns on once oncoming traffic have the right of way to turn)
• On my way home, it navigated through a parking lot but seemed to want to wind its way around through various paths instead of the least amount of turns - just going straight and turning left at the end of the lot
• Love that I can control the max speed again, although I wish it were a bit larger text - it's smaller than it was before, and blue text, and then it disappears from the screen after a few seconds. I want it to persist so I know what my max setting is at all times.
• Seemed to default to 40% speed offset, which seems a bit high. I'd prefer standard to be around 15%.
• It cut a few lefthand corners pretty sharp. On the last turn onto my street, it waited for an oncoming car, and started turning while the car was right beside me. It was not a major issue, but I was surprised how more confident it was at taking that turn

Overall, needs more work, but this is a step in the right direction. Still need to be very careful at all times. I'm taking it on a 2000 mile roadtrip in a week. Looking at putting it through its paces!

 

[rlhamil]

It’s not great that they haven’t fixed the turn lane logic. It has turn by turn navigation already so it shouldn’t be rocket science to parse that to know what is coming next

Looking farther ahead solves both navigation problems and avoidance problems (and allows choices that get one farther forward on a multi-lane road if traffic is not too dense but in packs); and probably other advantages, too.

It also takes a lot more resources (CPU, RAM), or a lot more human effort to make it happen with the same amount of resources, if that can even be done - at some point, you can't fit more into the same size container.

 

[Lincabe]

I’ve legitimately been amazed by how much better v13 is vs v12. I live in the hills with winding, narrow roads, and v13 takes the turns with efficient confidence. It feels much more natural, and whereas sharp low speed turns were only successful half the time in v12, the new release manages them easily. I also love the fact that it now parks the vehicle for you. Makes me want to buy more stock (if the share price comes back down).

That said, it’s not yet perfect- the wiper behavior has been a bit annoying- smudging any dirt that happens to be on a pretty clean window, and now that I’m using FSD consistently, I’m realizing that the current navigation often takes suboptimal routes. For example, when making my way to the freeway, it routed me into a traffic jam on side streets instead of taking a slight detour (in the opposite direction) to skip it. In fact, I’ve noted at least three instances where it has recommended a suboptimal route since installing it yesterday.

With all of the easy annotation we can now provide the FSD team, I am sure this will soon be fixed. Brilliant work- brilliant business model. I can’t imagine buying another vehicle without FSD after experiencing this.

 

[rlhamil]

I should noted the 40% speed offset is ridiculous. I was constantly fiddling with the speed control to bring down the maximum. In NJ if you’re 40% over you’re probably headed to prison. That’s 70mph in a 50mph zone. Insane.

The only saving grace is Cybertruck in chill likes to drives below the speed limit, so I was also nudging the go pedal just to get to the speed limit. That’s a little too conservative. I should read the deets on the offset because it seems to adjust the lower bound of set speed as well as the upper bound.

70 in a 50 is alas very normal in some parts of the country. They really want to do 85 if they can.

The 10% over that would probably not be noticed even in a small town or school zone (10% x 30 = 3 over) will darn near get you run off the road in those parts.

I suspect 20% would be a compromise. And I wish the different profiles could each have a different percentage! I'd set chill to 10% or less, standard to 20%, and leave hurry at 40% (or even bump it up to 45%).

 

[yerEVan]

To OP. those are disengagements not interventions really. I noticed v13 smoother but still stopping a bit late when approaching traffic (stopped cars).

also huge carcass on the road and it did not move out of the way. So I had to disengage.

Lastly, emergency vehicle was approaching and it was crossing over into my lane, I let truck play chicken until I was almost uncomfortable. It was not stopping and basically wasn’t allowing right of way for ambulance with flashing lights and horns. And man was that dude pissed at me. I got over early enough but it was a little weird.

 

[Speedr]

FYI, FSD V13.2.1 is much better on my 2023 Model S than on my Cybertruck. I think the Cybertruck is a half release behind. It might be that way for a while due to how small the fleet is (for now). I'm just really appreciative that they're at least updating it frequently (vs. the longer wait for HW3 cars). Can't imagine not having at least some version of it...

 

[wtibbit]

Ok then that creates a whole other problem. My windshield was far dirtier prior to the update than after. I literally washed it the day before the update and it’s garaged.

In my case, prior to this update I’ve not even noticed the BAW was in auto without it actively raining. If the auto function it that sensitive after the update, there’s a problem.

After I engaged FSD, two seconds later the wiper wipes. Comes back up, then 5 seconds later, wipes. I turn it to off. Disengage FSD for any reason and re-engage, the same. I did it multiple times to see if it would continue to do it and it did. Either way, Tesla needs to know about and correct it.

Others have said they’re having the same issue.

So far, after two days and nights, with about 25 miles of day and night FSD operation, I haven’t seen that. If my truck begins to behave that way I will make a service appointment.

 

[TyPope]

Having issues when there are 2 left turn lanes, it defaults to the inside lane every time regardless of traffic or next navigation moves. Another improvement I’m looking towards is emergency vehicle and school zone/time recognition. Can’t wait to drive home and see the improvements, updated during work today!

My issue is almost identical except:
1. Right turn onto the onramp. There are two turn lanes, so I need to be in the left of the two.
2. onramp turns into merge on/off lane for the highway in 200 yards.
3. In another 200 yards, you need to move to the left 2 lanes to make the left exit to the next highway. (Thanks, DC)

FSD starts by trying to get into the rightmost turn lane. I cancel that. It tries again. I cancel that. Then, it behaves right.

 

[rrizzi7210]

So I had to take a 70 mile trip each way yesterday for an electrical inspection on a property across New Jersey. Our highways run north-south for the most part until you're near NYC so this was cutting west to east across the state to the coast. Lots of windy back roads, blind turns, bizarre intersections and crested hills. Figured I'd make the run with FSD v13 that just installed the night before and see how it goes. Here were my observations:

• Driving was much smoother - acceleration, braking (especially coming into a red light or stop sign was far less abrupt and more natural) and handling tight turns the truck did a much better job of slowing down to make the turn, maintain speed in the turn, and gently accelerate out - kind of like a person would do
• Steering was smoother - I was having the mid-turn correction issue on tight right-hand turns with abruptness in the actions as well as the crashing into center medians on left-hand turns. Both of those sets of issues seem to have been resolved.
• I like having the driving profiles back - I tend to drive on chill to maintain plenty of cushion for braking/unanticipated situations and the prior 'one size fits all' profile was quite aggressive
• Ended up doing the 140+ mile round trip with only a few interventions

The interventions:

• returning around 5pm it was darkening out, on a narrow country lane there was a bicyclist on the tight right shoulder who was difficult to see but they appropriately had a blinking red/white light on the back of the bike. Cybertruck was ready to assert its lane dominance and buzz the biker, maybe knocking them over. As the other side of the double yellow was clear I broke off FSD to put my drive wheels just over the double yellow to give the bicyclist a 3+ foot cushion. This really should be the default behavior, unless CT didn't see the bicyclist.
• At one intersection there are two lanes that turn left, I tend to stay in the right-hand lane as 400 yards ahead at the next light the left-hand lane turns into a left-turn only lane. CT wanted to move into the left lane for the first turn which would then necessitate another lane change to the right hand lane post-turn in order to go straight at the next light, straight at that light is the intended (and mapped) direction of travel. I broke off here as traffic gets very busy and merging right again can be difficult in the short distance between intersections. Easier and safer to stay in the right-most lane and then just go straight.
• In my local neighborhood Cybertruck was very close to a school bus. The bus slowed and turned on a right-turn indicator. Cybertruck was riding up on the bumper of the school bus as it slowed. I broke off, backed off to give the bus room and waited to see if it was going to switch to flashing yellow lights or flashing red lights. As the bus ended up slowing to turn, I then safely passed it on the left. Prudence here would be to take a similar action, back off, observe, collect more data on the situation and then choose an action.

There were 1-2 more that I can't recall at the moment, I did record and send snippets from each intervention to help the FSD team continue to tune the models. All in all, it was surprisingly relaxing (and still odd) to be chauffeured by the truck. Elon is correct in stating that $8K for FSD is too cheap to have an on-call private driver 24x7x365. The rub is this driver is no longer a teenager but is still a mid-20 something with solid experience and decent road sensibilities but not always observant of the safest course of action in low frequency situations as I've noted above. The awe-inspiring thing is Cybertruck didn't even have FSD until a few months ago so I'd guesstimate it's gained 10 years of driving experience in roughly 10 weeks (I've driven this loop with the prior FSD so can compare directly). At this rate, expect it to go from very, very good to near-flawless by mid-2025. Glad we have lifetime FSD in the Foundation Series, it will pay off in spades!

Nice narrative with just the right amount of detail. My experience over the last 24 hours has been notably similar, especially when it comes to using the "chill" profile.

I just completed a 40+ mile FSD v13.2 drive from West Palm to Boca in Florida, mostly along the Florida Turnpike, which had heavy traffic this morning. Lots of semis, constant lane-changers, stop and go traffic and FSD was considerably smoother, almost like a chauffer driving in my opinion. It even handled a complex right lane to left lane change at exactly the point where the acceleration lane from the Southbound side of the West Palm Beach Turnpike plaza meets the left lane perfectly.

 

[loganthefrst]

Thanks for sharing, my experience has been similar. CT v13 seems to be great but not quite as good as AI4 Model 3/Y vehicles. Still some odd behavior but overall MUCH better than the 12.5 that would get stuck at tight neighborhood intersections and just sit there lol. Plenty of improvement to come!

 

[rovert43]

So I had to take a 70 mile trip each way yesterday for an electrical inspection on a property across New Jersey. Our highways run north-south for the most part until you're near NYC so this was cutting west to east across the state to the coast. Lots of windy back roads, blind turns, bizarre intersections and crested hills. Figured I'd make the run with FSD v13 that just installed the night before and see how it goes. Here were my observations:

• Driving was much smoother - acceleration, braking (especially coming into a red light or stop sign was far less abrupt and more natural) and handling tight turns the truck did a much better job of slowing down to make the turn, maintain speed in the turn, and gently accelerate out - kind of like a person would do
• Steering was smoother - I was having the mid-turn correction issue on tight right-hand turns with abruptness in the actions as well as the crashing into center medians on left-hand turns. Both of those sets of issues seem to have been resolved.
• I like having the driving profiles back - I tend to drive on chill to maintain plenty of cushion for braking/unanticipated situations and the prior 'one size fits all' profile was quite aggressive
• Ended up doing the 140+ mile round trip with only a few interventions

The interventions:

• returning around 5pm it was darkening out, on a narrow country lane there was a bicyclist on the tight right shoulder who was difficult to see but they appropriately had a blinking red/white light on the back of the bike. Cybertruck was ready to assert its lane dominance and buzz the biker, maybe knocking them over. As the other side of the double yellow was clear I broke off FSD to put my drive wheels just over the double yellow to give the bicyclist a 3+ foot cushion. This really should be the default behavior, unless CT didn't see the bicyclist.
• At one intersection there are two lanes that turn left, I tend to stay in the right-hand lane as 400 yards ahead at the next light the left-hand lane turns into a left-turn only lane. CT wanted to move into the left lane for the first turn which would then necessitate another lane change to the right hand lane post-turn in order to go straight at the next light, straight at that light is the intended (and mapped) direction of travel. I broke off here as traffic gets very busy and merging right again can be difficult in the short distance between intersections. Easier and safer to stay in the right-most lane and then just go straight.
• In my local neighborhood Cybertruck was very close to a school bus. The bus slowed and turned on a right-turn indicator. Cybertruck was riding up on the bumper of the school bus as it slowed. I broke off, backed off to give the bus room and waited to see if it was going to switch to flashing yellow lights or flashing red lights. As the bus ended up slowing to turn, I then safely passed it on the left. Prudence here would be to take a similar action, back off, observe, collect more data on the situation and then choose an action.

There were 1-2 more that I can't recall at the moment, I did record and send snippets from each intervention to help the FSD team continue to tune the models. All in all, it was surprisingly relaxing (and still odd) to be chauffeured by the truck. Elon is correct in stating that $8K for FSD is too cheap to have an on-call private driver 24x7x365. The rub is this driver is no longer a teenager but is still a mid-20 something with solid experience and decent road sensibilities but not always observant of the safest course of action in low frequency situations as I've noted above. The awe-inspiring thing is Cybertruck didn't even have FSD until a few months ago so I'd guesstimate it's gained 10 years of driving experience in roughly 10 weeks (I've driven this loop with the prior FSD so can compare directly). At this rate, expect it to go from very, very good to near-flawless by mid-2025. Glad we have lifetime FSD in the Foundation Series, it will pay off in spades!

Totally agree, they also fixed the issue where FSD just turns off if you forcefully accelerate rapidly. That was my biggest concern from a safety perspective. One bug I noticed was that when in stop and go traffic it had to be nudged to go every time the truck came to a complete stop for more than a few seconds. Otherwise the only turn override was at a very confusing offramp heading westbound 210/Sierra madre exit making left turn.

Otherwise great improvements, will continue training & programming it until a blind toddler can drive it safely without issue.

 

[rovert43]

Yes, experienced this several times today. Otherwise, my FSD experience is much improved. Especially approaching stop lights and stopped vehicles. It is slowing down much sooner and more smoothly without the sudden braking.

Also experienced this, not sure if it's a timing method to calibrate the refresh rate?

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