Charge me by the ton mile

[Tinker71]

STATE-BY-STATE FEES
Here's a rundown of the states that currently charge electric-vehicle owners added fees, according to the National Conference of State Legislatures:

California: $100 annual fee for a zero-emissions vehicle. Starting in January 2021, annual increases will be indexed to the consumer price index.

Colorado: $50 annual fee for full-electric and plug-in hybrid (PHEV) vehicles.

Georgia: $200 annual license fee for “noncommercial alternative fueled vehicles,” including EVs, but not PHEVs (unless the owner requests an alt-fuel license plate). The fee is automatically adjusted on an annual basis.

Idaho: $140 annual fee for EVs; it’s $75 for PHEVs.

Illinois: $100 annual fee for EVs beginning July 1, 2019.

Indiana: $150 annual fee for EVs; it’s $50 for hybrids and PHEVs.

Michigan: $135 annual fee for non-hybrid electric vehicles weighing less than 8,000 pounds; it’s $235 for those weighing more than 8,000 pounds. The state charges hybrid owners an extra $47.50 and PHEV drivers an added $117.50. These fees are indexed to the state gas tax and would rise incrementally if it is increased.

Minnesota: $75 annual fee on EVs.

Mississippi: $150 fee on EVs and a $75 fee on hybrids. Beginning July 1, 2021, these fees will be indexed to the inflation rate.

Missouri: $75 annual fee on EVs, and $37.50 on PHEVs.

Nebraska: $75 annual fee on alternative-fuel vehicles, including EVs.

North Carolina: $130 on plug-in vehicles, including EVs.

Oregon: $110 annual fee on PHEVs beginning on January 1, 2020.

South Carolina: $120 biennial fee for EVs; it’s a $60 biennial fee for hybrids.

Tennessee: $100 annual fee for EVs.

Utah: $60 annual fee for EVs; it increases to $90 in 2020 and $120 in 2021. Hybrids are assessed a $10 fee that rises to $15 in 2020 and $20 in 2021. It’s currently a $26 annual fee for PHEVs that jumps to $39 in 2020 and $52 in 2021. In 2022 increases will be indexed to the consumer price index.

Virginia: $64 annual license for EVs.

Washington: $150 annual fee for EVs.

Wisconsin: $100 annual fee for EVs.

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[Tinker71]

I wanted to start this thread to talk about how most states have this wrong. While EV is good, less energy consumption and less driving is better.

There needs to be a weight component. With the Hummer weighing 9000 lbs with crazy horsepower it is going to tear up the road much faster than a Leaf or an Aptera.

A driver that drives 60,000 miles a year should also pay a lot more than a driver that drives 10,000.

I think most people will agree to above.

With modern vehicles it really shouldn't be that difficult to track and report annual miles and do it somewhat anonymously.

The ton mile rate should be relatively easy to estimate. Divide the annual road maintenance budget for the state by the estimated miles driven divided by the average vehicle weight.

We could scrap the gas tax now and charge everybody this way.

 

[John K]

Tax on gas is tax as you go, often ignored/accepted. Tax at registration renewal is felt and can be a hard annual blow to some. Agree on weight component.
Another question is how to charge by mile for fair tax versus use without having it feel like being charged per mile and what breaks lower incomes receive?

 

[Tinker71]

Tax on gas is tax as you go, often ignored/accepted. Tax at registration renewal is felt and can be a hard annual blow to some. Agree on weight component.
Another question is how to charge by mile for fair tax versus use without having it feel like being charged per mile and what breaks lower incomes receive?

Fair is paying for what you consume. Now I feel for poor rural people. There will need to be some sort of adjustment for them so this does not come as a complete shock, but still if they want to save money in taxes they should drive smaller and less when possible.

Rural people are often subsidized by urban people, although many don't see it that way.


I see what you are saying about making it to easy to accept the cost and do nothing about it.

Perhaps an annual reconciliation versus the transponder just charging your account incrementally.

 

[Deleted member 11233]

What if you are a multi state traveler and accumulate 15000 miles a year outside your home state? Is there an equitable way to tax and distribute EV mileage charges to the various states? Heaven forbid we get the Feds involved and have an national annual EV permit which (after they skim off the top) they apportion to all states in their highway funding?

 

[CyberGus]

It's a challenging problem. Taxing fuel more-or-less was proportional to usage, but we can't really do that with electricity. We can tax the vehicle at the time of sale, but this inhibits adoption and does not incentivize conservation. Taxing during annual registration can capture the usage, but will be burdensome and very unpopular.

We could tax tires, but that would just encourage keeping them until worn down to the rims, lol

 

[egandalf]

The way I see it, taxing based on fuel consumption is the most level playing field across vehicle categories. Bigger, heavier vehicles categorically consume more fuel, so tonnage is effectively accounted for.

Agree that charging everyone a flat rate simply for making a greener choice is a BS way to "recoup lost revenue" especially since the fees being charged are so often greater than the would-be taxes collected.

Eventually, we may find this going through the power companies similar to gas taxes today with the fuel companies, but adoption of residential power will eventually throw that off as well.

I think I just argued myself to the combined mileage/tonnage annual tax formula...

 

[CyberGus]

What if you are a multi state traveler and accumulate 15000 miles a year outside your home state? Is there an equitable way to tax and distribute EV mileage charges to the various states? Heaven forbid we get the Feds involved and have an national annual EV permit which (after they skim off the top) they apportion to all states in their highway funding?

The US Govt already taxes fuel, usually at comparable rates ($0.18/gal) to the state tax.

https://igentax.com/gas-tax-state/

Interstate highways are federally funded. There is also federal money for local roads that varies by state. For instance, California is fully self-sufficient by providing 99% of their own funding, while socialist Texas relies on getting 25% of their road money from the nanny state feds. ;-)

 

[John K]

Bury tax in insurance. Some information resides to apply appropriate tax. Reduced tax for depreciation. Tax does not apply to gasoline as they pay through the gas tax. Proof of insurance kept with registration status. Approach can solve the “my freedom is threatened If you charge me per mile“ mentality. (I am one, or maybe too cheap and dislike paying tolls) Applying tax now will desensitize new adoptees since most will accept it as the cost instead of, you taxed me! Mileage is harder to track across the board but can be done with averages withbreaks to lower incomes.

Just a thought.

Lobbyist are coming

 

[Tinker71]

What if you are a multi state traveler and accumulate 15000 miles a year outside your home state? Is there an equitable way to tax and distribute EV mileage charges to the various states? Heaven forbid we get the Feds involved and have an national annual EV permit which (after they skim off the top) they apportion to all states in their highway funding?

With the exception of commercial trucks I think we just accept that some milage/road wear will come from other states. Hopefully these folks are doing business in that state and contributing via sales tax etc. A lot of it will wash out.

Currently states like Wyoming get a lot more money per resident for the highway system because they have a lot of people just passing through, a lot of road to maintain and few people to spread it. Somehow that situation needs to be accounted for. I supposed this is the federal element and will need to be collected and distributed differently than the state and local.

 

[fritter63]

Going to have to disagree with you on that approach.

Ex: California charges a "weight fee" for vehicles (trucks really) over 6000 lbs. That included my 99 Dodge Ram. It cost me an extra $600 a year as, presumably, a tax to pay for the extra wear and tear it would put on the HIGHWAYS.

Except that, my truck was mostly driven around town (the roads are paid for from DIFFERENT taxes), if It was used at all. Mostly it just sat in the barn, and I still had to pay for all that extra "wear and tear".

I'm fine with a use based tax, but simply basing on weight doesn't accurately model that.

And that ties in to the rural customers. If they mostly drive back roads (and dirt ones at that), why are you taxing them?

 

[Tinker71]

Going to have to disagree with you on that approach.

Ex: California charges a "weight fee" for vehicles (trucks really) over 6000 lbs. That included my 99 Dodge Ram. It cost me an extra $600 a year as, presumably, a tax to pay for the extra wear and tear it would put on the HIGHWAYS.

Except that, my truck was mostly driven around town (the roads are paid for from DIFFERENT taxes), if It was used at all. Mostly it just sat in the barn, and I still had to pay for all that extra "wear and tear".

I'm fine with a use based tax, but simply basing on weight doesn't accurately model that.

And that ties in to the rural customers. If they mostly drive back roads (and dirt ones at that), why are you taxing them?

That really sucks, yes weight only is a horrible way to do this. Adding the mile component really helps.

I am not exactly sure but I think state funds do get distributed to rural counties. Even gravel roads need maintenance and plowing.

 

[JollyRoger]

Raise tax on electricity?

 

[Challeco]

I wanted to start this thread to talk about how most states have this wrong. While EV is good, less energy consumption and less driving is better.

There needs to be a weight component. With the Hummer weighing 9000 lbs with crazy horsepower it is going to tear up the road much faster than a Leaf or an Aptera.

A driver that drives 60,000 miles a year should also pay a lot more than a driver that drives 10,000.

I think most people will agree to above.

With modern vehicles it really shouldn't be that difficult to track and report annual miles and do it somewhat anonymously.

The ton mile rate should be relatively easy to estimate. Divide the annual road maintenance budget for the state by the estimated miles driven divided by the average vehicle weight.

We could scrap the gas tax now and charge everybody this way.

This is still a regressive tax. So, no. Federal and State taxation should be based on needs divided by the aggregate subtracting the population that does not make enough to pay taxes. Just say no to charging the working poor anything. Do you want 100% utilization? Making is more expensive and more complicated is not the way. Especially not when corporations, an economic construct for profit only, will do everything possible to keep profits, including shunting responsibility away from their balance sheets. Find the money from those that have it. Ultimately, who benefits from the trillions of profits in the U.S. alone? Is it sally who works full time between two jobs, without benefits who needs transportation because her employers don't care how she gets to work, just that she does? Or is it GM?

 

[Qball]

It’s a sensible thing to do and needed for a full transition. Too hard to get government to track anything so a flat annual fee is simplest solution until a better solution can be put in place. Perfection is the biggest enemy of good.

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