.

[FutureBoy]

I just want to point out that a lot of high net worth individuals got that way because they don’t spend $85k on things like cars or trucks.

That seems like a judgement you are making. I agree that there are some people who have money and are known by those around them to be very tight with it.

But that is not everyone. More often, I see people who are very principled in what they spend their money on. They don’t spend on anything unless it has a specific purpose or will bring about a desired outcome. Given the exact right conditions, there is almost no limit to what they will direct toward their end goal. For these folks, money isn’t for simple accumulation. It is a tool to achieve some desired outcome.

Thing is though, they have their own goals and motivations. If you don’t know each person well enough you won’t know what they might spend their money on.

Also, there are multiple ways to be in control of an object beyond just purchasing it with cash. If the desired outcome involves getting control of a specific object, there are often ways to take control with minimal financial cost.

I’m certainly not pulling $85k out of my IRA or taking a loan out on my home in order to buy a truck. I seriously doubt many people will. People who do that don’t have high net worths.

Agreed.

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[HaulingAss]

That seems like a judgement you are making. I agree that there are some people who have money and are known by those around them to be very tight with it.

But that is not everyone. More often, I see people who are very principled in what they spend their money on. They don’t spend on anything unless it has a specific purpose or will bring about a desired outcome. Given the exact right conditions, there is almost no limit to what they will direct toward their end goal. For these folks, money isn’t for simple accumulation. It is a tool to achieve some desired outcome.

Thing is though, they have their own goals and motivations. If you don’t know each person well enough you won’t know what they might spend their money on.

Exactly! I didn't buy a car until I had been a motorcyclist for 4 or 5 years. And I bought used motorcycles with cash. And my first few cars were all used and all bought with cash to save the finance charge. I basically lived like a college student so I could get financially ahead and I did that for many years after I could have afforded things like new TV's furniture, expensive vacations in nice hotels, etc. I just kept investing my money with the hope I wouldn't need to worry about money some day.

With some good investments that I resisted selling simply because they had doubled, tripled or quadrupled, that day came a lot sooner than I expected. Because my best investments kept going up. And up. And up. Sure, sometimes they would go down for a year or two but mostly they went up. I only sold a stock if I needed the money to invest in a company that looked more promising or to buy a house or some land or pay taxes. By the time I was 37 I was retired and could afford anything I wanted. Because I had religiously saved money and avoided spending it.

Now I have more money than I can shake a stick at and it simply doesn't matter to me. I have reached my goals and as long as I don't go crazy with luxury chalets, jets and yachts, I will never have to worry about money again and can buy whatever I want without having to strategize, pinch pennies or trying to get a bargain deal. The money just keeps multiplying. and I spend very little time managing it, mostly I just stay abreast of things happening in the world to make sure my investments are still on track for continued performance in coming years The secret is to spend less than you make. I would not be in this position if I took loans out to buy things.

I know a number of people who resisted taking loans when they were younger and are now in their 50's-70's who are in a similar position. Most of them did it by having a good paying job or running a profitable business and putting their savings into good stocks and letting the gains ride. Spend less than you make while young and invest the rest in good companies with a future. Not every investment will play out but don't sell your winners and don't sell your losers simply because they went down, sell losers if you determine they probably don't have a good future.

The number of people across the developed nations of the world who can afford a tough environmentally friendly Cybertruck with all the bells and whistles including FSD are more numerous than many can imagine. They have millions of dollars worth of stocks and no debt. Many of them don't look any different from those in debt up to their eyeballs wondering how they are going to meet next months obligations. But they are a lot happier for not having to worry about it. Don't spend more than you make!

Cybertruck will not be outrageously expensive like so many are claiming. Initial versions will average well under $90K (even optioned up) and as those reservations get filled and Tesla continues to ramp production, they will release the lower cost variations that will be able to go head to head with no-nonsense gas and diesel trucks in terms of offering consumers the most bang for their buck. The automotive world will be in shock and awe. We will simply nod our heads and say "we knew it was coming, it's been more than obvious ever since the reveal was so successful. Ignore the mainstream media who tried to portray the reveal as a giant fail.

 

[Crissa]

Your ability to save money is a privilege.

I spent most of my 20s couch surfing and making less money than rent or my medical bills would cost. I chose busses when I was poor, but that limited where I could live, what jobs I could take. No amount of saving would get me a house, credit, or retirement.

My spouse bought our first new car with a loan because she suddenly needed to commute the two hours (50 mile) to Stanford. (She had been laid off after 9/11 in the telco crash and unemployed for three months.) That no-frills base manual Sentra cost us (with credit) as much in 2002 as our new 2013 Mazda with every single option available. That first down payment was the recycling check we got from my five-years-disabled Tercel.

We didn't get full health insurance until late 2005.

And in 2010, we bought a distressed property - damaged entryway, had been foreclosed upon and bought cash but the new owner suffered a medical emergency and couldn't climb the stairs. We lots bids on several other homes to cash buyers - and then only got this one with an FHA tiny deposit loan using the last of the money from my spouse's great grandmother's farm and selling my online virtual server.

Always by the skin of our teeth, always in debt. Far more of my friends are in worse shape; since Boomers each generation is on median, more poor at any specific age.

But yes, you do get to be rich because you saved. But you were able to save because you were lucky. ^-^

?‍

-Crissa

 

[CyberGus]

But yes, you do get to be rich because you saved. But you were able to save because you were lucky. ^-^

?‍

-Crissa

Let's use the word "fortunate" instead of "lucky", which implies that life is all chance. There's some self-determination in there, no?

I work hard, and I'm good at what I do, but I also accept my good fortune and privilege.

 

[Crissa]

Let's use the word "fortunate" instead of "lucky", which implies that life is all chance. There's some self-determination in there, no?

I work hard, and I'm good at what I do, but I also accept my good fortune and privilege.

Sure. Everyone's got a slightly different connotations in their vocabulary.

-Crissa

 

[CyberGus]

Sure. Everyone's got a slightly different connotations in their vocabulary.

-Crissa

I work in Customer Support, where connotations are the difference between a positive NPS score, or being called to answer to my management.

Wordsmithing is my occupational hazard lol

 

[cybguy]

The big problem with Jeep Wranglers is you need to tow them not only on pavement but on moderately rough dirt roads. So you got to through in the cost of the tow vehicle and trailer to get it anywhere it was meant to be driven. I got stuck with a New Rubicon Edition as a rental last June when the airport only had it ready to go. If it wasn't going to be an hour wait for the next vehicle I would never have accepted it. Absolutely horrible up I-80 from SLC to Wyoming. I drove a few hundred miles in the Wyoming Range on dirt roads. Man did that make me miss my Subaru. Literally had to drive at 60% normal speed in that Vehicle that only excels off any road. Pure garbage everywhere else.

 

[HaulingAss]

Your ability to save money is a privilege.

I spent most of my 20s couch surfing and making less money than rent or my medical bills would cost. I chose busses when I was poor, but that limited where I could live, what jobs I could take. No amount of saving would get me a house, credit, or retirement.

My spouse bought our first new car with a loan because she suddenly needed to commute the two hours (50 mile) to Stanford. (She had been laid off after 9/11 in the telco crash and unemployed for three months.) That no-frills base manual Sentra cost us (with credit) as much in 2002 as our new 2013 Mazda with every single option available. That first down payment was the recycling check we got from my five-years-disabled Tercel.

We didn't get full health insurance until late 2005.

And in 2010, we bought a distressed property - damaged entryway, had been foreclosed upon and bought cash but the new owner suffered a medical emergency and couldn't climb the stairs. We lots bids on several other homes to cash buyers - and then only got this one with an FHA tiny deposit loan using the last of the money from my spouse's great grandmother's farm and selling my online virtual server.

Always by the skin of our teeth, always in debt. Far more of my friends are in worse shape; since Boomers each generation is on median, more poor at any specific age.

But yes, you do get to be rich because you saved. But you were able to save because you were lucky. ^-^

?‍

-Crissa

I was fortunate that I had good health and could work physically demanding jobs with long hours. I actually enjoyed it. I've had numerous jobs where it was not unusual to put in over 100 hours per week (whether I was being paid by the hour or not). When fishing, no hours were kept but there were many consecutive 20-21 hour days. I was still making far less annually than most professionals but it's pretty hard to spend money when you are in the field and have cheap or free food and shelter for long periods of time. Professionals are buying BMW's, furniture, expensive clothes and vacations, etc. Many of them are in debt.

It wasn't unusual for young fisherman to finish a season and buy a brand new 4x4 truck. I never really understood that. Yes, I would have liked a new truck, no, I wasn't tempted (but Cybertruck might have changed that, ha-ha!) Then I would get a winter job. If there was time in between, I would pick up odd jobs. I might even take a vacation but it would be more of an adventure vacation, mostly camping with occasional cheap rooms to get cleaned up. In Mexico I would get a room almost every night because it was only $5-$9 for two or three friends to split. I had some friends that were more frugal than I was. We probably spent as much money on beer as anything else. If I had to do it again, I would do it much the same way, as long as I had good health.

 

[Crissa]

Several of my teachers in high school did their summer season on boats in Alaska.

The perks of living in a remote town in Washington.

-Crissa

 

[HaulingAss]

I have had those long hours and tough job. I kind of wish i had been the professional instead. Not to go into debt but because i know some of those jobs can be and are detrimental to long term health. Abusing one's body and mind day in and day out for financial gain could be considered hard work ethic and discipline but it can also seem foolish later in life if you feel like you traded some of your good health for it or too much of your free time was robbed. I would not go the same route if i had to do it over again.

In older age i realize we humans are not machines. We need and are designed for a balanced life. Even the 40 hour work week is mans own invention. Im just glad i got out of the rat race and wasn't stuck in it to the bitter end and can see the world for what it is in my remaining years.

As always, (YMMV) your mileage may vary

Ha, no! Hauling gear in clean Alaskan air all day long, eating freshly caught seafood every day, drinking Alaskan spring water, that made me stronger and healthier. It's the sedentary lifestyle and money worries that brings about poor health! I retired by 37 and was fit and strong. Being in the fresh air all day long, rain or shine with a simple job to do is good for the mind too! No stress of commuting, no bad air being cooped up in polluted air indoors, etc. If I had been doing a 9-5 grind, I doubt I would have had the energy to invest so profitably.

When I retired, I continued to lead a very active lifestyle hiking in the mountains, camping, skiing all winter long, mountain biking, sailing, etc. As I age I do less but it's always better to do an appropriate amount for your level of fitness than it is to be mostly sedentary. The human body evolved over millions of years to provide for itself in a time before we had machines to do the labor for us. Movement is good.

My free time was not robbed, my days were filled with the scenic beauty of Alaska, whales, bears, eagles, dolphins all around. My main winter job at a ski area wasn't bad either, cooking, shovelling snow, unloading trucks and all the free untracked powder I could handle. Two or three hours most evenings drinking beer with fellow employees reliving our best ski runs and eating a home cooked dinner. Don't limit yourself with nonsense about not being able to handle some hard work, just have fun doing it! Life is what you make of it, grab it by the horns and live it!

 

[RMK!]

Nearly half of my "Baby Boomer" generation has no money or appreciable plan for retirement. Many others have simple plans based upon Social Security but with fewer people contributing, that bucket will be empty soon.

Not a lot of good news these days but Tesla is one company that seems to have a plan and I feel good about supporting their efforts. I think the CT prices will be reasonable because I believe Musk wants them to be just that. Not a fact but a reasonable guess ...

 

[HaulingAss]

Several of my teachers in high school did their summer season on boats in Alaska.

The perks of living in a remote town in Washington.

-Crissa

When I graduated from High School, I understood I could live wherever I wanted as long as there was work available.

 

[Crissa]

When I graduated from High School, I understood I could live wherever I wanted as long as there was work available.

That's why none of us live there anymore. Not that we wouldn't want to live there, but because the latter.

-Crissa

 

[HaulingAss]

Sounds like you had quiet the job. It's why i said some (not all) jobs can have detrimental effects. What you describe sounds more like a vacation compared to what i did. My comments were mostly about my own journey.

When i read physically demanding and long hours, it reminded me of the decade i spent working at an industrial plant.

12-14 hour shifts working around dangerous machinery and chemicals and in extreme temperatures. Hard on the knees and lower back. I made a ton of money which made my early retirement possible but it also robbed me of 10 years of the prime of my life. I could buy anything i wanted for me or my family, but i couldn't spend much time with them. I wouldn't ever go the route again.

An active lifestyle and good health doesn't have to come from what you do for a living. Iv had desk jobs too. You just have to make time for activities. But i get what you're saying.

True, your health is more important than anything. I would have run, not walked, from a job that exposed me to toxic chemicals day in/day out. That's what robots will be for!

 

[rr6013]

True, your health is more important than anything. I would have run, not walked, from a job that exposed me to toxic chemicals day in/day out. That's what robots will be for!

Unless AGI Tesla conquers, not likely, cars may be too toxic to humans at any speed. AP is digging Tesla a hole it may not be able to backfill with AI. While FSD promises to eliminate human input, external error and random accident there is coming into focus subsets of externalities for which intelligence human, artificial or General can not account.
Meaning robo is constrained in just exactly what it can do in context like reducing human labor to improve safety and health. Optimus is a capitalist Willy Wonka Dream Factory but planes will fall out of the sky, cars will crash into things, and human do the strangest things.
Tesla could pivot into subsets and Willy Wonka Worlds.

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