All Parking Lots with more than 8 spots Should Have Solar Canopies and EV Chargers

GlockandRoll

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This is why I pretty much stick to twitter lately.
I've got a 3-strikes and your out policy with regards to censorship.
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mhaze

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USGS estimates impervious parking lot coverage for all 3,109 U.S. counties
Jun 21, 2019
https://stormwater.wef.org/2019/06/...rking-lot-coverage-for-all-3109-u-s-counties/

.....
model estimates, for example, that commercial land has consistently contained the highest percentage of parking lot coverage over the last four decades. In 2012, the model identified just over 12 billion m2 (129.1 billion ft2) of commercial land in the U.S. — about 2.4 billion m2 (25.8 billion ft2), or 20.13%, of which was covered by parking lots. Other types of land use with the most impervious space included industrial and military facilities with 19.58%, and major transportation centers such as train stations and airports with 7.43%.

In all, the model estimates that about 5.5% of all U.S. land was covered by parking lots in 2012, a figure that is growing with each decade.

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Estimating the presence of paved surface parking lots in the conterminous U.S. from land-use coefficients for 1974, 1982, 1992, 2002, and 2012
Dates Publication Date 2019-04-04 Start Date 1974-01-01 End Date 2012-12-31
https://www.sciencebase.gov/catalog/item/5c0ea593e4b0c53ecb2af59f

** data files available. See article.

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As one who has flown extensively around the US, I can assure you that 5% of the land area is NOT covered by parking lots. Nowhere close. 99% of the time one is looking at nothing below but farms ranches and wilderness of various sorts. There are exceptions; the southern CA basin and large megapolis. Now go sort thru your facts and fix them.
 

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There are several homes in Florida that have been thru multiple hurricanes, yet their panels are still on their roof.

They can be build and attached in a way that does not make them missiles that only destroy those surrounding them.

And a ground mount, with more open space below them, actually makes them easier for uplift winds to pull them off than on a roof, where usually the space below the panel is minimized due to the roof being there (flat or slopped).
Bah. These are subject to wind load analysis and engineering software exists that do these calculations. Unfortunately, the force of wind goes up as the cube factor as it's velocity is doubled. So, you are wrong in many cases, and right in a few. Therefore I will gladly agree with your assertion "there are SEVERAL homes in ..."

Meanwhile back in the real world, I encourage you to simply wear the solar panels that you think so highly of.
 

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Bah. These are subject to wind load analysis and engineering software exists that do these calculations. Unfortunately, the force of wind goes up as the cube factor as it's velocity is doubled. So, you are wrong in many cases, and right in a few. Therefore I will gladly agree with your assertion "there are SEVERAL homes in ..."

Meanwhile back in the real world, I encourage you to simply wear the solar panels that you think so highly of.
Speed or velocity is a factor, but if the volume of air moving at a speed vs a larger volume moving at a slower speed... I would rather have the smaller volume moving faster. Mass of the air is what provides the force to lift/load on the solar panel mounts.

I am doing some research to try to confirm what I thought I understood.

http://www.solarabcs.org/about/publications/reports/wind-load/pdfs/Wind_Load_blanksstudyreport3.pdf

https://www.mecaenterprises.com/how-to-solar-panel-wind-pressure/

https://skyciv.com/docs/tech-notes/loading/solar-panel-wind-load-calculation-asce-7-16/

In my region, we deal with much faster winds (tornadoes) and I have seen tornadoes lift houses or tear them in half and twist trees in half.

My understanding in these areas, there is not much that can be done, things come apart. The best design tries to minimize blocking the flow of wind and letting it flow around... There is a moving PV array less than 2 miles from my house and it has survived upto 100mph winds so far. Lucky enough, no tornado has directly hit their home, but the storms that produced some did.
 

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Speed or velocity is a factor, but if the volume of air moving at a speed vs a larger volume moving at a slower speed... I would rather have the smaller volume moving faster. Mass of the air is what provides the force to lift/load on the solar panel mounts.
....
No.

e = 1/2 * m * v * v

Regardless, the masses of homeless will thank you for their new covered campgrounds with electric power provided. In short order these luxurious pieces of concrete will no longer be available for any cars. The great unwashed masses of humanity will occupy them.
 
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ldjessee

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What a positive and pleasant attitude.

I am sure you know, the m is the mass of the air, which I am sure you also know is not a lot, especially compared to a solid object like things made of metal, like PV solar mounts.
 

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No.

e = 1/2 * m * v * v

Regardless, the masses of homeless will thank you for their new covered campgrounds with electric power provided. In short order these luxurious pieces of concrete will no longer be available for any cars. The great unwashed masses of humanity will occupy them.
What a positive and pleasant attitude.

I am sure you know, the m is the mass of the air, which I am sure you also know is not a lot, especially compared to a solid object like things made of metal, like PV solar mounts.
Hello again. Your question has been fully and correctly answered. Things such as force of wind at various speeds are well understood. Please consider that "wind", eg "movements of gas" are the motive force for jet aircraft and all rockets launched into space. And those are solid objects. I have nothing more to say on the subject.
 

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France has woken back up and is going to build a lot more nuclear. Renewable is a key component but it will NEVER be able to be our baseline source
Regarding EV vehicle charging in parking lots, there is an implicit assumption in this thread that solar would do the job. I'm not sure about that, in the absence of truly massive battery systems. Would someone drive to a parking lot and park there if they were "probably going to get a charge"? Just depending on weather, rain/snow and cloud cover? I'm doubtful that would work. Maybe if it was free, but not if there were charges.

Commercial EV chargers in parking lots should be bullet-proof rock solid reliable, with one exception.

Companies producing solar panels with their grandiose claims should be required by law to power their buildings and facilities with their own panels and pay penalties when they require one ampere of grid power.
 
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Crissa

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Regarding EV vehicle charging in parking lots, there is an implicit assumption in this thread that solar would do the job. I'm not sure about that, in the absence of truly massive battery systems. Would someone drive to a parking lot and park there if they were "probably going to get a charge"? Just depending on weather, rain/snow and cloud cover? I'm doubtful that would work. Maybe if it was free, but not if there were charges.

Commercial EV chargers in parking lots should be bullet-proof rock solid reliable.
Where would they be sending the extra energy when cars weren't plugged in?

-Crissa
 

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Where would they be sending the extra energy when cars weren't plugged in?

-Crissa
Excellent question, because it illustrates how many aspects of apparently simple concepts are not thought out or perhaps not practical.

I guess my personal answer to that would be (aside from forcing the companies making the panels to use them) would be to start with a standard of quality for the PRODUCT/SERVICE, which is the charger; and that would be equal or better than today's superchargers - Tesla brand.

What that requires, rules the equation. If solar can input efficiently to that, fine; if not, toss it out and plan on the poles and transformers that are required.
 


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What that requires, rules the equation. If solar can input efficiently to that, fine; if not, toss it out and plan on the poles and transformers that are required.
Then you're missing the point. Those are required, either way. But supplementing your power by using the wasted space above is key. Be it apartments or public space or... just trees and solar. It shouldn't be abandoned for that tunnel vision of charging. Or whatever tunnel you're stuck in.

-Crissa
 

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Then you're missing the point. Those are required, either way. But supplementing your power by using the wasted space above is key. Be it apartments or public space or... just trees and solar. It shouldn't be abandoned for that tunnel vision of charging. Or whatever tunnel you're stuck in.

-Crissa
Then you'd need a smart control system that metered electric power to the various things from two sources: The power grid and your solar. Alternately (and preferred by the powers that be) you'd run grid power to everything and sell your power to them for maybe 25% of what they charge you.

Not tunnel vision, just realities. Where I live, a consumer system is not allowed to be simultaneously connected to solar and to the grid. Ever. And suppose you do it their way and sell them your solar, and their grid goes down. You are without power. Guess what? You are not allowed to run it in any alternate mode to power your stuff.

Supplementing power to use the wasted space isn't "key." It is just another thing worth evaluating and looking at costs and profits. It could be that analysis shows use 100% grid power is "key."

And these days, anyone considered putting the nice shade on parking lots, certainly in a number of major cities, does have to contend with the hard reality that homeless would invade them, and they wouldn't even be usable as parking lots anymore.
 

mhaze

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...Which you'd need anyhow.

-Crissa
Just to be clear. What are you referring to? Something that exists (which at least where I live, is specifically outlawed by the power company and for good reason) or something that you wish existed and was allowed to be used (which I've wondered about, certainly).
 

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Just to be clear. What are you referring to? Something that exists (which at least where I live, is specifically outlawed by the power company and for good reason) or something that you wish existed and was allowed to be used (which I've wondered about, certainly).
'For good reason' seems to be doing alot of weight here.

Your power company doesn't want competition, and does not have a good reason to ban solar except its bottom line. I bet if you look into it, they also will drag their feet at hooking up a parking lot charger on its lonesome, too. I know mine does, and peer generation solar systems are widely legal here.

Hence, you would need that protection circuitry installed anyhow, to balance out the demand curve. So why not also generate some or more of your own power in that wasted space?

It feels like some of you are just dragging your feet looking for excuses why we need to continue to scrape, pollute, and continue to pile costs on whoever comes after you.

-Crissa
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